IS THIS TRUE EVOLV ?

[Darklyspectre]

Brandon said:

Actually, MAP's (minimum advertised prices) help protect the small vendors by not allowing companies with large buying power (lower per unit cost) to price the smaller guys out of the market.  It also benefits the manufacturer by allowing for a wider distribution.  And it benefits consumers by giving more choice in vendors.  It also levels the playing field so  vendors have to compete on consumer beneficial value added services like fulfillment and support.  It is not a perfect system but it prevents those with the deepest pockets from monopolizing.

To be honest. The only two markets here are online and B&M. Online stores have always had cheaper prices than B&M this has always pretty much been this way.

It doesn't really do anything. Those who go to B&Ms will still purchase from their B&Ms. There are so many people that still buy their hardware from B&Ms that sell at MSRP and above. Not so long ago I saw somebody talk about their istick that cost him 30 bucks above the normal price. He was okay with it. He liked supporting his B&M and he loved being there. Those people will always buy there no matter how cheap something is online.

People who always order online will always order online. People like me who have no B&M nearby will not go to a B&M ever.

And HCIGAR's policity are more price fixing than MAP. Even IF a store sells the mod without advertising a price it's warranty is still void. Even if say the store hides the price until the end. it does not matter. It's not a MAP system it's price fixing. HCIGAR wants 169 bucks to be the price and no matter how they will force the store to keep that price.

It just kills competition in the online world AND B&Ms. you could have B&Ms nearby competing with like 10-15 dollar discounts on the mod. to have a competitive market but instead they just lock it up completely.

The biggest issue is that the CUSTOMER is the victim here. We get no deals. we get no coupons and if a store DOES sell it under what HCIGAR wants we lose all warranty and THAT is the most horrible thing. Why should WE the customer be punished for a store "breaking" the rules? If I buy the HCIGAR mod at say 140 bucks instead of 169 and HCIGAR finds out and cuts off supplies to the vendor and they run out of mods. I get ZERO warranty AT ALL. I can't go to the store I bought it from since they can't get hold of new mods and HCIGAR won't give me any warranty no matter how young the device is. consumers are also not bound by any reseller agreements. The consumer should NEVER be punished for what the store and HCIGAR agreed on

That business system is the biggest issue.

And then you have the Sherman antitrust act that makes it illegal to price fix in the US. The only reason why apple is able to kill a competitive market is because they sell a 300 dollar device to the reseller at say 295 dollars making it impossible for them to lower their prices because the profit is so small(they have to earn their money with the rest of the hardware likes cables,programs and such). HCIGAR is selling these mods for like 90 bucks to the reseller and Price-fixes the price. They aren't putting down a MAP because a MAP would still be able to worked around by websites like newegg that don't SHOW(advertise) the discounted price until you check out. No this doesn't use that. If a store sells below the 169 dollars no matter HOW they kill warranty and supplies. That is not a MAP agreement.

It's just a stupid business in general. The only thing it does is piss off the consumers. How much negative press has HCIGAR gotten over this? I constantly see people complain about HCIGAR and their price fixing.

Brandon that is like you guys saying "sell this chip at 60 bucks you get it for 30" and then somebody uses the MAP system(not advertising the price)  to sell it at 50 bucks. And then you guys find out and destroy the warranty of the end consumer. That is you price fixing a chip not you putting a minimum advertised price.

[MikeTheVapeDude]

MSRP is needed in some cases, like juice companies (for example: Cuttwood) setting the minimum price that it can ever be sold at (but it can be sold higher) to avoid a particular store monopolizing the product in their area, but what HCigar is doing seems a bit overboard. It's necessary, but not so much so. But, it's not the worst thing going on. It's crap, but there's worse crap. I just don't think they're doing it for the right reasons, they're doing it for greed. It's also screwing over the customers in the end as Dark said. Why does the customer get punished for what the seller did? That's not right at all, but punishment on that level is outrageous anyway.

[turbocad6]

many high end audio equipment the warranty is only valid if bought from an authorized dealer and the dealers have a minimum advertised guidelines too, you can finds deals on this equipment, but anything not bought reatail from an authorized dealer is considered grey market and the factory warranty will be voided.  

[Brandon]

@Darklyspectre, I'm not defending the actions of Hcigar or anyone else for that matter.  I was simply stating the upsides of MAPs and nothing more.  I haven't been following the Hcigar kerfuffle and have no dog in this fight.  You make many valid points and I probably shouldn't have stuck my nose in.  I usually know better 

[letsavit]

Modern day economics, don't see why vaping is any different to most other products I buy, I want the best quality for my money. The DNA boards is an electronic product, much the same as the laptop, tablet etc you're reading this on, is that made in the U.S........? enthusiast are a limited market, especially as vaping grows. I find it quite impressive a U.S. company exports electronics to China in this day and age.....that's a credit to evolv, certainly not a negative. In reality I only need one DNA but have 10....why because I love the board and like to collect the variety of mods it comes in, much more profit for evolv to invest into the future....the mods they go in are nothing more than a box,wire and some buttons, China can do it with ease...I have a hcigar VT40, great mod, excellent construction for the price I paid, had vaporshite, well 3, the first 2 were faulty, I will never buy another shark again, I'm from the UK and watching this price fixing and where I spend my money........do I need to say anymore....!

[robrainer]

The reason that this manufacturer did this is because places like Fasttech, Gearbest, etc... are supposed to be distributors of the product. They are really Chinese trading companies. Their agreements with the manufacturer are all based on selling wholesale to retailers. What has happened though is that these companies have launched websites to sell direct to consumer. They are getting distributor pricing, but selling direct to consumer which is not fair for anybody trying to compete in this ever so crowded marketplace. For a U.S. based retailer the VTbox200 is wholesaling for $110 at the lowest MOQ meaning 1-50 units. By the time you pay for transfer fees, shipping from China, and import duty fees, these are costing retailers $120/per unit. So selling them for $117 is not very fair for U.S. retailers. Unless you do the same; meaning signing a distribution agreement then turn around and sell them retail online, there is really no way to compete. I don't understand why anyone would hold that against the manufacturer. The manufacturer is just making sure everyone has a fair chance to sell these. The manufacturer will allow retailers to discount them, but they will not allow distributors selling direct to consumer to discount them. That just makes sense based on signed distributorship agreements. The only thing the manufacturer can do is to threaten warranty coverage or deny that specific company any units which is what the letter above was about. That letter was specifically sent to a Chinese Trading company (aka Gearbest) that turned around and pre-sold direct to consumer for $7 above wholesale. The manufacturer is just trying to protect it's retailers and customers. For a U.S. retailer, making $40/unit is not overly greedy. Add the cost to advertise, credit card processing fees, shipping to customers, insurance, website maintenance, employees, etc... and you are looking at a profit of ~$10-$15 per unit assuming you get 0 defects or returns or credit card chargebacks (yea retailers pay for stolen credit cards, not the banks). Anyway, just providing a different point of view for everyone. These Chinese trading companies are running rampant and have so many layers of complexity that it's hard to unravel who is who. Manufacturers think they've signed a distribution agreement with a trading company and they end up on Gearbest for wholesale prices which is not the agreement they had with the manufacturer.

[blueridgedog]

I am glad that others get the point that this is a China company to China company issue...why are their products in not in most BMs?  Fastech and similar.  In fact, several of the B&Ms I go to get their inventory from Fastech and similar.  These direct sale China companies are giving folks wholesale plus 5% pricing (or less) with free shipping.  The end result is that decent brands can't get a foothold in the US B&M structure.   I don't think this will be solved as the economy of scale is pressing on them.  If they want a B&M product, then they will have to not sell to the big Chinese on-line retailers as they are very happy for their 3% and massive volume.

[lamonjullo]

Check out this video regarding the VTBox200 by Vape Cige.  It was just uploaded today and is what I know to be one of the first videos giving a first-look at this particular mod.  Watch the whole thing, it just keeps getting worse the more he touches the thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d0k-bQtzi4

Wow!  I'm floored.

[blueridgedog]

The screw on button cap I like.  The general design and assembly is pretty good.  The 510 is brutal.

[Patrick.N]

510 gauge looks kinda weak too, 20,18 gauge?, only thing missing in that video is this guy blowing up his lipo hence they soldered male connector on the batteryside

[techbearus]

lamonjullo said:

Check out this video regarding the VTBox200 by Vape Cige.  It was just uploaded today and is what I know to be one of the first videos giving a first-look at this particular mod.  Watch the whole thing, it just keeps getting worse the more he touches the thing.


Wow!  I'm floored.

One major issue that others noted somewhere else.. at 9:20 in the video when the reviewer shows the Lipo connector, note that the male and female connectors are not installed properly.. Lipo has the exposed leads connector and even in the video there was a high likelihood it would do a dead short on the mod metal body when he was moving the cables around.. yikes..

@Evolv... I don't know what to say, but this kind of puts you also in bad situation, if any user were to get hurt with inferior mods that are built with no proper QC or vetting .. I am at loss for words here ..

[retird]

techbearus said:

[QUOTE=lamonjullo]Check out this video regarding the VTBox200 by Vape Cige.  It was just uploaded today and is what I know to be one of the first videos giving a first-look at this particular mod.  Watch the whole thing, it just keeps getting worse the more he touches the thing.


Wow!  I'm floored.

One major issue that others noted somewhere else.. at 9:20 in the video when the reviewer shows the Lipo connector, note that the male and female connectors are not installed properly.. Lipo has the exposed leads connector and even in the video there was a high likelihood it would do a dead short on the mod metal body when he was moving the cables around.. yikes..

@Evolv... I don't know what to say, but this kind of puts you also in bad situation, if any user were to get hurt with inferior mods that are built with no proper QC or vetting .. I am at loss for words here ..[/QUOTE]

Vape Cige should tell the mod manufacturer to change the connector leads so the battery has the female connector.  Easy fix at that point. If you noticed the batteries Evolv has do not have connectors for the main connection leads and only have a connector for the balancing leads.  I really don't see Evolv being in a bad situation as the mod maker configured the connections and built the mod.

[techbearus]

dc601 said:

Vape Cige should tell the mod manufacturer to change the connector leads so the battery has the female connector.  Easy fix at that point. If you noticed the batteries Evolv has do not have connectors for the main connection leads and only have a connector for the balancing leads.  I really don't see Evolv being in a bad situation as the mod maker configured the connections and built the mod.

I haven't encountered any battery manufacturers giving the connectors in reverse... that being said its Vape Cige, who should have definitely corrected it, .. not Evolv I agree, but ..

.. You and our peers understand the quality and standards of Evolv, its built upon many years of innovation and quality of products .. but the media doesn't care if they need to write a fear mongering tagline, especially for an USA company.. china meh, they probably don't even care.. I am looking at all the horror stories of 18650 hybrid mod misuse stories.. it just paints a bad image, and many complications.. 

[blueridgedog]

Good catch...they put the deans on backwards...wow.

[turbocad6]

it's amazing how many of these large companies can't get simple basic wiring stuff like this right, I mean there are 15 year old kids out there that would know better than to use a tiny jst plug and 20 ga. to carry 23 amps, or to put 2 adjacent male battery posts sticking out of a live volatile power supply with as much energy potential as a 1,500 mah lipo, how can these large companies be so incompetent? who's actually designing these things for them? I wouldn't even believe some of these things without actually seeing it, it's crazy... 

[scoopy]

Lol I hear ya Turbo....I seen VapenFagans review and immediately noticed the battery wiring lol...If not for the 510 coming out and the battery wiring and the writing all over it I actually think it's a nice mod lol

[blueridgedog]

scoopy said:

Lol I hear ya Turbo....I seen VapenFagans review and immediately noticed the battery wiring lol...If not for the 510 coming out and the battery wiring and the writing all over it I actually think it's a nice mod lol

...and it can be if they fix these issues.  It is a good design and the case is well made, just shoddy assembly.

[Patrick.N]

Disassembled one unit, one drop of glue and 18gauge at 510, not sure if that will pose any problems but if anyone decides to replace 510 cables they also superglued 510 inserts so needs to be torched out and of course unusable after that, (16 / 14 gauge as reference)

 

[blueridgedog]

I just can't fathom the reverse install of the dean's plug, but the chassis is really great IMHO.

[Patrick.N]

It's great and easy to assemble but not sure how to fix their 510 just yet so that was brutal move indeed

[Podunk Steam]

Should there be concern with battery swelling the way they crammed the battery in there? I'm with the understanding these Lipos can swell to + 15% resting size.

Edit: If you have the tools a threaded bushing could be a reasonable fix for the 510, even a good press fit with the anodizing removed should fly.

[blueridgedog]

Personally, at the discharge rates being used, I am not that concerned with swelling.

[Patrick.N]

Heads up for anyone whom might have bought this.

Battery installed is mislabeled @ 1800mAh, it discharges here @ only 1221milliamps.. weight and measurements matches "lion Powers" 1500mAh battery and can be found on ebay for $10 in case anyone needs to replace it, several here in sweden needs to at least hence some arrived depleted or with ruined cells which can be very dangerous.

[Vape_Like_A_Boss]

Podunk Steam said:

Should there be concern with battery swelling the way they crammed the battery in there? I'm with the understanding these Lipos can swell to + 15% resting size.

Edit: If you have the tools a threaded bushing could be a reasonable fix for the 510, even a good press fit with the anodizing removed should fly.

I'm sure the battery matters, and a cheaper battery may have a little more swelling problems, but I have a MaxAmps 2000 mah 3S LiPo, and I usually charge my battery with my Hyperion EOS 0606i at the higher rates the charger will do. So even charging my battery regularly in 15 to 30 minutes, it doesn't get very warm and in 2 months I haven't had any swelling that's measurable.

I also have some of the same packs from 2008 that I haven't disposed of yet. It's very minor swelling, the dimension change is that the sides, which would be the edges of the cells not the two flat sides, are slightly reounded where before they were nearly "right angle" square and straight.

I know it's not the same exact battery, but since I haven't seen inside the case and what clearance is allowed, I wanted to note where i've seen swelling. It's been about the same in just about every lipo pack I've owned (15 packs or so, most were larger MaH and very high discharge for racing or crawling RC's).

I'd want to make sure there's some room for the pack to expand, but in my experience with pulling 30 amps as my all day vape and then charging the battery almost exclusively on a LiPo balance charger in 30 minutes, the swelling has been less than expected. I do believe manufacturers should ALWAYS err on the safe side, and a big part of my support of LiPo's is recommending that people buy mods that may not be the cheapest but are safe and dependable.