Feature request - swap Temperature with Watts on screen and controls

[soulseek]

blueridgedog said:

[QUOTE=valld]Well, it looks like Evolve are not interested in further developing and investing in DNA200 chip. With the speed they react to our requests DNA200 will be obsolete very soon if it is not already..... Just get RX200 and forget it...............

There has been several version of escribe and lots of beta firmware on this forum.  Failing to address this issue, in your opinion, negates the responsiveness of the firm entirely?

This is a significant change and will probably be rolled out, but right now I know that Evolv is working on a research project, digesting the draft FDA rules and analyzing the first corpus of significant data from the first round of chip replacements.  This request has to be important, but admittedly of low priority at the moment.[/QUOTE]

Agreed but it would have been nice if they had even responded to the request; afaik there hasn't been an official reply from them. It also doesn't take long to change something like this. If i's only a matter of time I guess they're quite low on resources.

[Margucci]

yea i dont think anyone is upset that it hasnt happened yet. we are disappointed at the lack of communication. there is a huge chunk of this forum who have asked for this feature. there are many others who have posted elsewhere who have wanted this feature. something as small as "this will be released in a future update" would be all we need for the time being. 

[scooby]

It takes about 15s to change the temp so is hardly much of an inconvenience.

I understand why this is a desirable feature for many. I'm a temp limiting vaper but think this should be incorporated as an option.

[justchil]

I would LOVE to see this.

I don't use temp control very often.  So I have to remove it from my "fields" otherwise I have - - - for temperature.  It would be nice if the device is not in temp control mode to put the user selected field -- if it is in temp control mode display wattage.  Sort of how the RX_Clone is setup.

[TwistedVegan]

I think this is the single most important feature that needs to be implemented if evolv ever bless us with an update. I bought my dna200's specifically to use them with stainless steel builds but because of the way ss fluctuates so much you have to adjust temp regularly to get a consistent experience. I've tried every kind of ss build in every type of rda and with all of them I find myself needing to adjust the temp all the time. It's such a shame that the on board menu system on the joyetech devices makes them so much more useable for tc than the dna. If it wasn't for the ability to switch profiles for different rda's my dna's would be sitting in the draw unused until we get an update to turn them from temp limiting devices to temp control ones.

[lewisss]

scooby said:

It takes about 15s to change the temp so is hardly much of an inconvenience.

I understand why this is a desirable feature for many. I'm a temp limiting vaper but think this should be incorporated as an option.

[lewisss]

scooby said:

It takes about 15s to change the temp so is hardly much of an inconvenience.

I understand why this is a desirable feature for many. I'm a temp limiting vaper but think this should be incorporated as an option.

Really? Wattage example Anemic vape Hold to unlock power Increase watts puff ..bit more Increase watts puff little bit too much Lower watts .. Perfect Hold to lock power Temp example Anemic vape Lock device Hold to set temp Increase temp Unlock device Puff .. Bit more Lock device Hold to set temp Increase temp Unlock device Puff Little bit too much Lock device Hold to set temp Lower temp Unlock device Puff ..., mm mm tastes like it would be perfect in between this and the higher one ( about 5 degrees more! Drives home Turns on laptop Signs in Opens escribe Connects device Changes temp on escribe by +5 degrees Puff ... Perfect So scooby, maybe I have gone to extremes here but my point is yes, to change it once is 15 seconds but how often do you adjust a setting and it is perfect the first time! It is a shame that the best temperature control device on the market is set up to adjust power as the default! Almost as if the temp control was a second thought!

[VapingBad]

lewisss said:

[QUOTE=scooby]It takes about 15s to change the temp so is hardly much of an inconvenience.

I understand why this is a desirable feature for many. I'm a temp limiting vaper but think this should be incorporated as an option.

Really? Wattage example Anemic vape Hold to unlock power Increase watts puff ..bit more Increase watts puff little bit too much Lower watts .. Perfect Hold to lock power Temp example Anemic vape Lock device Hold to set temp Increase temp Unlock device Puff .. Bit more Lock device Hold to set temp Increase temp Unlock device Puff Little bit too much Lock device Hold to set temp Lower temp Unlock device Puff ..., mm mm tastes like it would be perfect in between this and the higher one ( about 5 degrees more! Drives home Turns on laptop Signs in Opens escribe Connects device Changes temp on escribe by +5 degrees Puff ... Perfect So scooby, maybe I have gone to extremes here but my point is yes, to change it once is 15 seconds but how often do you adjust a setting and it is perfect the first time! It is a shame that the best temperature control device on the market is set up to adjust power as the default! Almost as if the temp control was a second thought! [/QUOTE]
He said he saw your point before you made it.   The going into Escribe to change the temp by less than 10 F is a separate point and there is a feature request for that.

Each to there own I feel it should be an option, personally I set temp to suit the liquid and use preheat & watts to adjust the amount of vapour, but like scooby have no problem with people using it another way. 

IMO anaemic vape is more likely a arty or build issue than temperature setting, but YMMV.

[scooby]

I think vapingbad said it all, but in answer to your question: I rarely adjust the temp for a given build/juice. Wattage is pretty constant also but I would adjust that more than the temp.

[lewisss]

Lol I thought VB would join in, I agreed with you yesterday regarding temperature needing to be in smaller increments. But I know you are in the power adjustable vape camp! If you were to try one of the temp control devices that have the temp interface as the main you will see what every poster that has requested this is going on about. After all the DNA 200 is primarily marketed as a temp control device, not a VW device

[VapingBad]

I just don't understand why you feel that people need to be in different camps lewisss.

[lewisss]

I think this subject has drawn out long enough, if evolv do not implement it in the next update I feel it will be a wasted opportunity. I will try my hardest not toget dragged into this topic again. I just find it odd how someone asks for a fairly simple change in the way the device can be used. Which I think is a fair enough request as per most of the other software/firmware requests. And this particular subject gets responses from "you are doing it wrong, " "you should use wattage not temp for adjusting the vape" " temp does flavour wattage does vapour" Well I have tried both ways on four different 'temp control devices,.... And I know which way I prefer to change my vape experience

[johndoe123]

I thought I would give some information on temperature control so that people understand the logic behind both "camps". There are two different ideas of how to use temperature control. They really are completely different.

Before we talk about the "camps", I want to explain a couple things. Voltage and wattage are not directly related to vapor. Vapor is produced by heat which is measured using Celsius or Fahrenheit. You might think you like to vape at 50W or 5V but the truth is you don't, you like to vape at the temperature curve (curve because the temperature is not constant) that 50W or 5V produces with your setup. That might make some people mad, but please understand if I heated the juice up using some magical power and made the temperature curve exactly the same as your device does at your setting, you would not notice a difference, I promise.

Now, here is a breakdown of each "camp".

Temperature Control: The idea here is simple: I like to vape at x temperature. I want my coil to be at exactly that temperature my entire vape. I want it to get there as quickly as possible and I want it to stay there no matter how long my hit is. A 1 second hit will behave the same as a 10 second hit (excluding the very beginning where is takes a short period of time to reach temperature). With this attitude, wattage/voltage is irrelevant to the user. The wattage/voltage should be set to the highest possible for the device (DNA 200 is 200W). Your preheat setting is irrelevant because you have the device set to it's maximum wattage/voltage. This is how devices that only allow you to set temperature work (i.e. the iStick 40W). The device applies as much power as it needs to get the coil to your temperature as quickly as possible. With this "camp" of vaping, having the wattage on the screen at all is useless (unless you want to see the live wattage as you take a hit). If you want less vapor you lower the temperature; if you want more vapor you raise the temperature.

Temperature Limiting: The idea here is not quite as simple: I like to vape with a temperature curve, not a constant temperature. This is more similar to kanthal or no temperature vaping. A 1 second hit will behave very differently than a 10 second hit. Here you are primarily adjusting in wattage/voltage. This allows you to define the temperature curve: lower wattage = smaller slope, higher wattage = greater slope, just like kanthal vaping. Temperature is used as a limit. Without it the coil would continue to heat up eventually resulting in burning. On short hits you might not ever hit your temperature setting. The temperature setting is for longer hits or empty tanks (longer is subjective, you might hit your temperature limit on every hit). If you want less vapor you lower the wattage/voltage; if you want more vapor you raise the wattage/voltage. This increases or decreases, respectively, the time it takes for the coil to heat which results in different amount of vapor. Remember, you are changing the wattage/voltage to change the temperature, not because wattage/voltage actually change the vape by themselves.

Clearly for the people in the "temperature control camp", having temperature as the main control setting on the DNA 200 is quite important. Those in the "temperature limiting camp" might want wattage to be the main control setting. For this reason, I think it should be added as an option. Realistically, it only needs to be changed using Escribe as *most* users will have a preference and not need to change on the go. Obviously it is nice to be able to change settings directly on the device, but I think other features are more important.

I did my best to be as factual as possible. Please don't get mad if you disagree. We all have different vaping styles and no one style is better than any other, but at the end of the day, the temperature of the juice is all that matters.

[retird]

Repeat  previously posted " Just make it an option".  I don't need it but others want it. Preface that sometimes something seems simple to implement but in reality it may require a lot more. 

[VapingBad]

smartalec1020 said:

I thought I would give some information on temperature control so that people understand the logic behind both "camps". There are two different ideas of how to use temperature control. They really are completely different.

Before we talk about the "camps", I want to explain a couple things. Voltage and wattage are not directly related to vapor. Vapor is produced by heat which is measured using Celsius or Fahrenheit. You might think you like to vape at 50W or 5V but the truth is you don't, you like to vape at the temperature curve (curve because the temperature is not constant) that 50W or 5V produces with your setup. That might make some people mad, but please understand if I heated the juice up using some magical power and made the temperature curve exactly the same as your device does at your setting, you would not notice a difference, I promise.

Now, here is a breakdown of each "camp".

Temperature Control: The idea here is simple: I like to vape at x temperature. I want my coil to be at exactly that temperature my entire vape. I want it to get there as quickly as possible and I want it to stay there no matter how long my hit is. A 1 second hit will behave the same as a 10 second hit (excluding the very beginning where is takes a short period of time to reach temperature). With this attitude, wattage/voltage is irrelevant to the user. The wattage/voltage should be set to the highest possible for the device (DNA 200 is 200W). Your preheat setting is irrelevant because you have the device set to it's maximum wattage/voltage. This is how devices that only allow you to set temperature work (i.e. the iStick 40W). The device applies as much power as it needs to get the coil to your temperature as quickly as possible. With this "camp" of vaping, having the wattage on the screen at all is useless (unless you want to see the live wattage as you take a hit). If you want less vapor you lower the temperature; if you want more vapor you raise the temperature.

Temperature Limiting: The idea here is not quite as simple: I like to vape with a temperature curve, not a constant temperature. This is more similar to kanthal or no temperature vaping. A 1 second hit will behave very differently than a 10 second hit. Here you are primarily adjusting in wattage/voltage. This allows you to define the temperature curve: lower wattage = smaller slope, higher wattage = greater slope, just like kanthal vaping. Temperature is used as a limit. Without it the coil would continue to heat up eventually resulting in burning. On short hits you might not ever hit your temperature setting. The temperature setting is for longer hits or empty tanks (longer is subjective, you might hit your temperature limit on every hit). If you want less vapor you lower the wattage/voltage; if you want more vapor you raise the wattage/voltage. This increases or decreases, respectively, the time it takes for the coil to heat which results in different amount of vapor. Remember, you are changing the wattage/voltage to change the temperature, not because wattage/voltage actually change the vape by themselves.

Clearly for the people in the "temperature control camp", having temperature as the main control setting on the DNA 200 is quite important. Those in the "temperature limiting camp" might want wattage to be the main control setting. For this reason, I think it should be added as an option. Realistically, it only needs to be changed using Escribe as *most* users will have a preference and not need to change on the go. Obviously it is nice to be able to change settings directly on the device, but I think other features are more important.

I did my best to be as factual as possible. Please don't get mad if you disagree. We all have different vaping styles and no one style is better than any other, but at the end of the day, the temperature of the juice is all that matters.

I largely agree, but would add that in what is being called wattage camp the heat up curve is often faster, especially compared to devices with out preheat and can be used to have a forward loaded vape if that's your thing.  Just increasing the temp past the boiling point will not continue to increase the vapour in the same way.  I am vary far from an expert on this, or anything vaping, but IIRC the liquid in contact with the coil will become a layer super heated steam which will heat the liquid that creates the vapour.

As you and many people in this thread have said both methods can give you a great vape and neither is wrong, it is just about choice.  But they are not the only controls you have EG if you want more vapour you can also increase airflow or contact area between the coil and wick, if you want faster heat up & cool down you can use thinner wicks and thinner wire.   This is a great tool, but you still need to match your atty and build to your vaping style.

[VapingBad]

dc601 said:

Repeat  previously posted " Just make it an option".  I don't need it but others want it. Preface that sometimes something seems simple to implement but in reality it may require a lot more. 

Yep, that sentiment goes all the way through this thread I don't think that anyone has been against having both methods as options in this thread.

[Margucci]

just to repeat for people too lazy to read...

WE WANT IT AS AN OPTION! YOU CAN CHOOSE WHICH IS SHOWN

[johndoe123]

Just increasing the temp past the boiling point will not continue to increase the vapour in the same way.

Accurate with one slight caveat (of virtually no importance but useful for understanding). Generally increasing the temperature will make the device apply more power at the beginning. The DNA 200 attempts to get the coil to your set temperature but not over (at least not much over) as quickly as possible. If you have the temperature set to 500F it will take x time to get to 500F. If you increase the temperature to 550F, it will *generally* take less than x time to get to 500F. This is because it does not begin to ramp back the power until later. This is being nitpicky, I know, but I think it helps with understanding how the device is working.

I largely agree, but would add that in what is being called wattage camp the heat up curve is often faster, especially compared to devices with out preheat and can be used to have a forward loaded vape if that's your thing.

The reason stated above is why the "temperature limiting camp" or "wattage camp" can get to a given temperature faster that the "temperature control camp". The DNA 200 will back off in power as it reaches the temperature to prevent from going over.

As you and many people in this thread have said both methods can give you a great vape and neither is wrong, it is just about choice.  But they are not the only controls you have EG if you want more vapour you can also increase airflow or contact area between the coil and wick, if you want faster heat up & cool down you can use thinner wicks and thinner wire.   This is a great tool, but you still need to match your atty and build to your vaping style.

I completely aggree. I personally vape with a DNA 200 and TFV4 with prebuilt nickel coils. I have the coil airflow wide open, and the slipstream airflow completely closed. I set my DNA 200 to 200W. Depending on the juice I set the temperature between 440F and 480F. I have a profile for 440F, one for 460F, and one for 480F. All other setting are the same on the profiles. Depending on the juice, I switch profiles. For me this setup works well because it is easy and the vape is exactly the same every time I pick the device up and no matter how long my hit is. This is why I love my DNA 200, accuracy is vital for consistency.

The main reason I want this feature is actually so I can have another metric on the display, I don't care about wattage but I want to see other stuff. This feature will allow me to remove wattage to add something else to the display.

[johndoe123]

just to repeat for people too lazy to read...

WE WANT IT AS AN OPTION! YOU CAN CHOOSE WHICH IS SHOWN

We also want it to tell us the winning numbers for the powerball. Can you implement that feature within the next few hours??

[lordmage]

being relatively new to the tc/tl game. i have come to the choice of asking for the option to be added as well. just like we can swap the buttons display and such why not have an option to switch the temp and wattage both on the display and how it would function. ie (5 clicks, hold up/down to get to Temp) as it is default ATM. swap the two then instead of temp it could be wattage. i have tanks that like a certain temp i change that more then i would wattage, when using the best TC curve for it.

Example when in wattage mode the device turns TC off, and so naturally i would want Wattage to be what was adjusted with the up and down.

when i am using a Tank that i like at 35 watts but change the temp thru the day i would naturally like to have the temp be what is changed by the up and down 

[letsavit]

Hey guys calm down and give evolv a chance to work out what they invented......... Temp control....lol... Off now for a while, just popped in to get the efusion files, thanks.....!

[mrz]

I have a great idea! Will it be possible to have temperature setting in the main screen instead of wattage ? Just kidin +1 from my side too for this request and James is testing it atm so i am sure we will see it soon...ish if all goes well. Great work dear Evolv team!

[BillW50]

mikepetro said:

Temp Dominant changes the control action (Display and the +/- buttons) to adjust temp by default instead of watts.

I am so glad Evolv added this option. So many love the DNA, but that was one thing that was pretty annoying.

mikepetro said:

I find it rather handy as I always leave my Mods on 200w and then let temp control it. So in day to day use, I just adjust temp.

Umm... do you really need it there? I am just thinking of cons. And I know for me, it doesn't need to be that high for the same performance. What should work is to keep dropping the wattage until you find the wattage where you noticed a change in vape. Then bump it up some.

CONS:

1) Harder on the battery for no gain.

2) Harder on the DNA200 (but we know the DNA is tough stuff)

3) It probably shortens coil(s) life.

I remember one video that Phil Busardo made and he tried testing if the DNA will pop up with a short error. But the DNA kept firing everything he tried. He even tried sticking a screwdriver inside of the 510 connector and it still fired and the screwdriver started to smoke.

Now lets say everything is working just fine with wattage set at 200 watts. Now let's say that 510 insulator melts, cracks, or something. Now you have a short and pushing 200 watts and TC will never kick in. Sure the batteries probably will be ok and the DNA200 will probably be able to handle it. But that's probably. There is always what if?

[mikepetro]

BillW50 said:

Umm... do you really need it there? I am just thinking of cons. And I know for me, it doesn't need to be that high for the same performance. What should work is to keep dropping the wattage until you find the wattage where you noticed a change in vape. Then bump it up some.

CONS:

1) Harder on the battery for no gain.

2) Harder on the DNA200 (but we know the DNA is tough stuff)

3) It probably shortens coil(s) life.

Need? - No, but it sure is convenient for the way I vape and attys I use.

IMHO, and in actual observation in Device Monitor, none of these 3 points are valid. Why? Because the mod never goes above 75w (or so) anyway. I am vaping on dual TI coils that average around 0.14 to 0.15 ohms at 480f. What I typically see in Device Monitor is a brief jump to 75ish watts during pre-heat (for a second or less) and then 480f is reached and temp limiting kicks in and throttles the watts down to 35w or less.

So it is no harder on the battery, board, or coil than if I set the max watts at 90w. It is just more convenient as I never even have to even think about watts when I change attys or whatever.

BillW50 said:

Now lets say everything is working just fine with wattage set at 200 watts. Now let's say that 510 insulator melts, cracks, or something. Now you have a short and pushing 200 watts and TC will never kick in. Sure the batteries probably will be ok and the DNA200 will probably be able to handle it. But that's probably. There is always what if?

This is a valid point in theory, but only in the event of a catastrophic failure. Ever since the 200 came out, I have never heard of even one such catastrophic failure where this was a danger. Sure, there have been failures, but the fuse has limited the potential danger in all cases I have heard of. If I am not mistaken there are actually 5 levels of safety engineered into the board, between that and the board's reputation, I personally am not concerned enough about it to change my 200w max.

[BillW50]

You raise some good points Mike. And while the Device Monitor is super cool and all. But I don't know if it could detect a spike say a thousandth of a second. I am guessing just by observing it that it might not pick up any faster than say a tenth of a second. It is hard to judge from the computer monitor how fast it is capable of. It might just boil down to the abilities of your computer (or the speed of the USB port, whichever is the bottleneck).

I have four oscilloscopes and I should do some testing when I have some time to kill. As it would be interesting even for a very brief instant in time if it does slam the coil at 200 watts.