Feature request - swap Temperature with Watts on screen and controls

[valld]

I'm happily using my DNA 200 homemade mod for about a month now, but there is something that bothers me a lot. I did search in the forum and didn't find any discussion about this, please correct me and even delete my thread if was already discussed.

When I'm vaping a build with a normal kanthal coil with TC switched off, the current default screen is perfect - I can change the wattage in a few clicks, I can lock it with holding the up - down buttons pressed easily and I have a quick and easy way of controlling my vape. All is good there.

Until I switch the TC on. With temperature control switched on, changing of Watts often is becoming useless. If your Ni/Ti build is good you can safely set the Watts to 200 and forget about it. What is important here is the temperature and I find myself changing the temperature quite more often in TC, especially after a new build, until it settles down. And here I have a problem, I have to 5 click the power button, double click the up/down buttons to enable temperature change, then another 5 clicks to unlock the power and start vaping. Definitely not as easy as the Watts change, and can be annoying if you play a lot with your new DNA 200.

My request/suggestion is just to swap the display and controls of the Temperature and Watts accordingly when changing the TC on and off. Double click and hold the up/down buttons when TC is on to lock the temperature and not the watts, and the screen to show the temperature as a main parameter, and not the watts. I have no problem changing the watts in TC with 5 clicks on the power button, then holding the up/down pressed, change the watts, another 5 clicks on the power button, because I simply don't change watts in TC. But it will be so much better, if I can just change the temperature in TC the way I now change the watts.

I'm sorry for the too many words used for something so simple, English is not my first language, I hope I did not bore you to dead with this post, and I hope my suggestion makes sense.

O, forgot to say that DNA 200 is a great board and I enjoy every minute using it

[Dampie]

+100

[VapingBad]

It has been posted before.

I would not max the watts in temp mode,  the watts still adjust the amount of vapour same as VW.   I have seen a few complaints of nasty hits supposedly dripping out of temp limiting especially if using low TCR wires and this just wouldn't happen if the user had not had the wattage turned up over what is sensible.

I have not objection to it as an optional feature, just never as a default, the temp lock ruined the DNA40 for me because it meat there is no power lock for temp limiting operation.

[valld]

Maybe I wasn't very clear, I'm not speaking about change of functionality, just how the board displays and controls the temperature with TC turned on. Now we can change the watts and temperature, just the temperature change is buried deep and not easily accessible, while the watts are easy to change, which is perfectly fine in TC turn off mode, but when in TC on I would prefer to bury the Watts than the temperature......

[VapingBad]

I understood perfectly and I have no problem with it as an option just not as a default, watts are still the main adjustment for vapour volume, if you need to up the temp to get more vapour you probably need more contact area for your coil or more airflow.

[valld]

I'm now very confused. The two months that I'm using temperature control devices I never even thought about using them in that way. My understanding is that you find your perfect temperature for the given coil and juice combination, up the wattage where it will be always enough, above the average power that you will be using and let the magic of TC do the job keeping your temperature at the sweet spot for an even and constant vapour. And I had a great success with this. Some TC devices (Istick 40w TC) does not even let you change the watts in TC mode, only the temperature, and this is working without any issues.

Your way suggests that you are using the TC only to prevent the coil from overheating if something goes wrong and your wick gets dry or you run out of liquid, and in this case you have to always balance between the temperature and power to match your coil. I'm just not getting it. Why do it this way?

[Mad Scientist]

I don't know if I don't fully get the TC paradigm but I'm also in the camp that temp is the adjustment I want to make. To me at least, temp is the power setting and the set temp is translated to power by the device to keep the coil at the average temp I set. Even when evaluating builds, I set the temp I want and watch in device monitor as to how much power is being applied to achieve that setting. As a result, I set a power that's not outrageous for the build but also significantly higher than what I would vape at without TC. The preheat is set at a power level well higher than that. Then I adjust temp to my preference at the moment. I just think doing it the other way around adjusting and limiting wattage sort of defeats the idea of TC and turns into more of a temp protection rather than temp control. To each his own. If evolv would allow a choice of what the bottoms do I would be happy lol.

[Bapgood]

How I recall it being explained to me is:


Short Version:

Temperature = Flavor
Wattage = Vapor


Longer Version:

You wan't to set your temp to where your juice vaporizes to your liking. Juice will vaporize at a specific temperature based on its makeup, once it hits that temp adjusting the temp higher can change the taste of the juice and etc. up until the temp the juice turns nasty and harmful. VG and PG vaporize at different temps so there is not really one temp that works for every juice or even a temp that everyone prefers with the same juice. Personal preferences are always different as are builds and etc.

Then wattage can be used to adjust the amount of vapor that is produced. Higher wattage = more vapor....lower = less.

However it has been my experience that it is difficult to build a setup to efficiently achieve this. There are many variables in a setup that can effect all of this and right now I think the TC tech is further ahead of atomizer tech which can not properly take advantage. So right now we basically find a build to suit our liking and adjust both temp and wattage to maximize the build/setup based on our preferences. Slight adjustments can be made with temp and wattage to fine tune, however larger changes are made by changing the build/setup.

[VapingBad]

Whatever works for you is right and I'm not trying to tell other folks how to vape just how I see it.

These devices are temp limiting, not temp control or temp protected.

I would like it to be easier to get to the temp adjustment, but I always have it at the min that gives me good clean flavour, usually 380F, but some builds need a bit more.  I never change the temp once I have the build & liquid combination set, I don't often change the wattage either TBH, but I do so much more so than the temp.

Think of it this way if you max the power and set the temp you are mainly setting the power by the build, particularly it's resistance like we used to with mechs.  It works, but if you build your atty so you have some head room power wise you have more adjustment.  Just adjusting the temp is a limited as once the whole coils is at the temp that vaporises the liquid there is no more upward adjustment and the temp the liquid vaporises is always the same for a given liquid.   Particularly if you are after a build where you just like to turn it up now and again I think it is better to still keep the temp as low as you can to keep the flavour cleaner and more importantly avoid high temps.

Sorry that is a poor explanation, but in a rush.

[lexalove]

Agree with OP.
In TC mode 99% of adjustments I make are to the temperature. The wattage is only going to affect the ramp up time of the coil to get to the preset temp (assuming there is sufficient power to get the coil to that temp) and the proportional component of the PID used to regulate the temperature.

It's actually pointless setting excessive power because the device throttles back the power once the set temperature is reached.

[techbearus]

Must have ... please...

Definitely would love to have this feature.. using a DNA200 simultaneously with Evic VT Mini and its such a pleasure to adjust temperature directly from up/down buttons in temp control mode. It makes the use of temperature control so much pleasurable. Also when I want to dial down/up on vapor/flavor, it is a quick few clicks rather than going to lock screen and some more.

[valld]

As I see no one is against (it's OK to be optional, not necessary default setting), maybe Evolve crew can chip in and comment.

[lewisss]

Personally it is a feature i would like and have asked for in a different thread, .
https://forum.evolvapor.com/topic/67543-topic/?do=findComment&comment=907884

just the option to display temp instead of power in the largest field, and when it is in that format to be able to change temp just by holding +&- buttons.  without locking first

[valld]

That's all I need as well.

Sorry Lewisss, I didn't read your thread before posting the request, it is basically the same :-)

[flem]

I have 4 temperature regulated mods and they all work with the ajustment of the temperature not the watt the watt is set and then you change the Vape by regulating your temp.
I am getting the Hotcig 200 one of these days and I will have to get used to finding the temp setting i can understand by reading this tread,
I think that having the temp regulating easy accessable would be great.

[soulseek]

This is probably the number one request I have right now. I don't understand how this isn't obvious when you design the onboard software. I guess it's because people are stuck in the past.

[valld]

John and the team are quiet, I believe they are not finding this issue important. At least to tell is if they will look at it, does it make sense to them and is there any possibility this change to be done.

[blueridgedog]

I can get into the philosophy that you set your temp once and then adjust wattage to control vapor, but that implies you are adjusting something.  In TC mode I am just setting the max wattage, so if that setting comes into play, I am not hitting temp.  In shot, if adjusting wattage changes your vape, you are below your set point and you are basically vaping in wattage mode with TC being a failsafe top end.  

[VapingBad]

I look at it the other way that the temp is only a max limit and the wattage is the power setting, you still get the benefit of temp limiting in the nice clean flavour and pre-heat plus you can turn it up and down as the mood suits.  For me the temp is a flavour adjustment and never want to go above the sweet spot for my liquid, where as I can go up and down on power depending on mood and build anything from 15 - 120 W keep in the flavour just so.  For me it is more about flavour than clouds, but what ever keeps you off the stinkies.


I am surprised that there is not a request for changing the temp step as I have both my DNA200s set at odd numbers via Escribe and would have thought that would go hand in hand with this feature request.

[Nick]

This seems like a swell idea! I'll go ahead and throw it into the ring for possible future Development.

[Mad Scientist]

VapingBad said:

I look at it the other way that the temp is only a max limit and the wattage is the power setting, you still get the benefit of temp limiting in the nice clean flavour and pre-heat plus you can turn it up and down as the mood suits.  For me the temp is a flavour adjustment and never want to go above the sweet spot for my liquid, where as I can go up and down on power depending on mood and build anything from 15 - 120 W keep in the flavour just so.  For me it is more about flavour than clouds, but what ever keeps you off the stinkies.


I am surprised that there is not a request for changing the temp step as I have both my DNA200s set at odd numbers via Escribe and would have thought that would go hand in hand with this feature request.

When you have settled on a temp "sweet spot" for your best flavor, what does device manager tell you about ever getting there as you reduce power? I guess I'm not getting what you're saying unless you mean you perceive best flavor at every temp under a certain limit? Or you get better flavor if it takes a few seconds to finally reach the sweet spot temp? There's still a resulting temp from every power setting -- you're just reducing power to which has the necessary effect of reducing temp, no?

[Nick]

Also, I wanted to comment as well that I am exploring a way to allow anyone to submit ideas, software enhancements, bug reports etc. I am doing my best to keep up with our support tickets and keep providing the service you all know and love, and be active here on the forums. 

I have a myriad of weird professional and hobbyist skills that fit great with what we do here at Evolv, with one of the professional skills being large Software development projects for a global industry leading Software company. If anyone is familiar with the SCRUM methodology of Software development, I would love to see us adopt this for EScribe albeit on a much smaller scale as we used SCRUM at companies previously to manage hundreds of development and QA resources.

This would allow us to turn each idea or desire into a Development project object, and assign it values for upcoming releases, mark things for the current upcoming release or a later development cycle, etc.

Obviously, this is just an idea, and I cannot make any promises, but I just wanted you guys to know we care and are listening to your feedback. 

[VapingBad]

Mad Scientist said:

[QUOTE=VapingBad]I look at it the other way that the temp is only a max limit and the wattage is the power setting, you still get the benefit of temp limiting in the nice clean flavour and pre-heat plus you can turn it up and down as the mood suits.  For me the temp is a flavour adjustment and never want to go above the sweet spot for my liquid, where as I can go up and down on power depending on mood and build anything from 15 - 120 W keep in the flavour just so.  For me it is more about flavour than clouds, but what ever keeps you off the stinkies.


I am surprised that there is not a request for changing the temp step as I have both my DNA200s set at odd numbers via Escribe and would have thought that would go hand in hand with this feature request.

When you have settled on a temp "sweet spot" for your best flavor, what does device manager tell you about ever getting there as you reduce power? I guess I'm not getting what you're saying unless you mean you perceive best flavor at every temp under a certain limit? Or you get better flavor if it takes a few seconds to finally reach the sweet spot temp? There's still a resulting temp from every power setting -- you're just reducing power to which has the necessary effect of reducing temp, no?[/QUOTE]

Depends a lot on the build & atty and how maxed out it is, many times I am floating around the temp limit,and on the 200 I generally run at least 100 W pre-heat so that will get me up to temp most of the time.

"I'm not getting what you're saying unless you mean you perceive best flavour at every temp under a certain limit?"  I think the clean flavour is more about not over-heating the liquid causing an irreversible chemical reaction than it is about consuming it at a specific temp providing you are getting enough vapour etc.  I will reject a build if I have to vape it over 380 F to get enough vapour, generally adding more contact area to the coil fixes that, but not always and it is much easier with the 200 than the 40 to do this.  Remember it is the average temp of the wire that is being limited not the temp of the vapour.  A 12 wrap coil at 380 F will give more vapour than an 8 wrap at 380 F, I have seen a lot of people just turning up the temp rather than improving their build and I guess that has made me a little cranky on the subject.

"There's still a resulting temp from every power setting --just reducing power to which has the necessary effect of reducing temp" only with constant airflow and perfect wicking, but not in the real world watch pBusardo talking to Brandon on the DNA40 launch video. 

I am fine with other people just setting the temp, but it's not the only way to use these and it is not a massive difference both ways will give you a great vape and better than non temp limited vaping IMO.

[flem]

I have 4 other temp Mods beside the Evolv 200 chip and they all work this way.

You set the watt and then you ajust the temp to you find your sweetspot. I would also like this feature in the Evolv 200 without having to lock the mod and use the + - to adjust the temp, But I can live with this.

This is a great Chip and what a difference in vaping experience from the Evic VT and the Istick 40w and Kopoor and the VF mini.

[JaySoCal]

I get both sides here. When I get a new juice I do adjust temp more to find what l like from it. I look at temp as a gross adjustment then I can change watts and pre heat as a fine adjustment to get a more complete flavor and vapor. Ramp the coil to fast might miss some of the flavor notes to slow you'll never get to the temp you want. But yes to change the temp when trying to find the sweet spot for build and juice can be a little annoying. Still love my 200 though