"Throttling"

[SirTimmyTimbit]

21 hours ago, retird said:

If I recall correctly......

Look in Theme Designer under the Language Tab you will see that "Throttling" is the Temperature Protect Message.... just means you have reached your set temperature and overshot it so the device is regulating you back to the set temperature.  In most all other themes the word " Temp Protect" is used.  In Device Monitor you can see when your device reaches set temperature and you can see the overshoot and the device regulating back to set temperature...

Throttling is a term also used when the atty starts to  becomes dry or not wicking quickly enough the device throttles back on power to prevent wick burning..... when it does this no error message is given..... so the message you are getting is just as stated above...

Sorry I didn't know the chip was able to show two different messages for those two conditions. I thought like most chips it would all fall under "throttling" or "temp protect". I'll change it back to Temp Protect in the next update.

@Pete1burn I was going to suggest removing the custom status from the language tab to see if it helps. If anything you would see the default message that the chip sends. But if it's cutting out your power when it shouldn't it's out of my league. I assume the max puff time is well over the puffs you were taking?   

When the theme had a flicker (and a half second lag) prior to v2.0 this problem made more sense. I cut down on the number of fields that updates while firing as well. 

[retird]

No there is only one message.... temp protect which you called throttling.......  you are fine Timmy...

 

 

 

[Si98justme]

I have been testing and it definitely completely stops firing at any time the temp protection message is shown, regardless of what that message is. This behavior definitely stops when another theme is used.

I changed it from “throttling” to “temp protect” and get the exact same issue, when the message pops up. In device monitor, while in mid firing it cuts all power to the coil as if I had let the button go. This happens regardless of whether the built in button or an external is used. It doesn’t seem to do this with other themes I have tried.

Since the theme creation is only possible in the GUI that Evolv provides and doesn’t seem to direct impact the firmware, I’m starting to wonder if it’s something to do with that field type and the firmware or some other conflict that’s causing the board to drop out of firing when the message is displayed.

So I’m not pointing fingers either, but perhaps the theme settings, features or interactions are somehow behaving in an unanticipated way, even though it seems like there isn’t any way it can.

[joeblowma]

{Bump} Well I'm willing to point fingers. It's not the theme. Been having this problem with my paranormal 250c since day 1.

My small pile of facts (accumulated with ss316L):

• happens most often at about 0.66s, but can happen after that seemingly at near 0.66s intervals, it suddenly stops firing and gives a "temp protected" error (which tbh seems suspiciously tied to a likely periodic event?)
• downloaded recordings have no sample event of the fail sample, but do note a higher then should be expected "peak temp" in the recording data (anywhere from 10F to 30F or more over the set value)
• cleaning/soldering the 510, swapping in various coils and atomizers... does not improve the situation
• changing to a lightweight theme reduces the frequency of occurrence, but it still happens and is even more jarring when it does so less often
• replay does not show any similar spikes in resistance to what you'd expect for a "peak temp" that far out of range during the recordings which strongly suggests this is a software issue
• even the forum randomly "half" signs me out while typing further suggesting software isn't a strong point here...?

Ran into something fun in wattage mode too, I had a wattage profile set with a 0.5ohm coil and changed tanks to one with a 0.24ohm coil and declined the coil question, and when I went to fire it... "temp protect". Is "temp protect" just a go-to "we won't let you fire for reasons undisclosed" message? Or does "temp" actually mean "temporary" like "temporary placeholder for a real error message which we may never include"? (Yes, a joke! Because laughter is what I have left after spending DNA sized moneys!)

Considering TC is what Evolv boards were known for, and I waited so patiently for a 250c... this is a little depressing really. My much cheaper ~$30 mods all manage to get through an entire puff... and arguably those builds aren't near as good as DNA should be. Anyway, still loving my paranormal even though I haven't found TC to be up to snuff on it... though it's epitaph really shouldn't be "at least replay worked."

[Björn81]

Hi,  i have the same issue as other users here, on my think vape finder box with aromamizer plus. 

I use the gaughe theme.

Tomorrow I try an factory reset.

Greetings from Germany (Black Forrest).

 

[Wayneo]

@retird and @SirTimmyTimbit and @joeblowma I can attest to what Joe wrote. I'm using a modified evolv theme. On my mod, I'm TC only. Around 5% of the time, usually around .7 seconds, all power to the mod is cut and Temp Protected shown on the screen. From my 1st pic, look at 'Peak' Temp value, although it's not displayed by the graph. The 510 soldering has been checked. I've been using this atty for months with no issues on regular DNAs (75, 200, 250). Temp set at 420F, Peak temp 453F shown below.

The second image (puff 2215) shows before and after successful operation if you look at the puff times. I don't think any of you guys are crazy. The power, once the coil is coming up to temp, never lowers, so if the puff were to continue, It would overshoot.

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by Wayneo
Move text around

[Si98justme]

I can confirm that it’s a board or firmware  issue. I’ve changed themes and firmware versions multiple times. On some themes the issue seems less prevalent. But surely this is coincidental, since given enough time it eventually does start acting up and dropping out of firing once the “temp protect” message is displayed.

Whether there’s a firmware issue that hits an issue and displays that message, or the message itself that triggers the issue is unknown. It is however a real issue with either the firmware or board. My guess as to why this thread isn’t getting posts as often as it should, is perhaps people are using their DNA 250c in other modes than normal TC mode.

@Evolv please look into this! It has been months where we have been having this issue with no new firmware that might fix the issue.

[Hatebreed75]

On ‎5‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:07 PM, SirTimmyTimbit said:

Hey I made Gauges. 

Honestly there is no reason why a theme should affect why and how often a status message gets displayed. Those messages get triggered by the system and the theme just changes how and where it's shown on the screen. 

Only reason I can think of why you saw it on Gauges and not on any other theme is the stutter that used to be in the theme. There used to be a lot of "update while firing" fields on the theme, and that would cause a brief stutter and visible screen refresh whenever you started/stopped firing.  

That's gone now (1.5.0+). I'd love it if you gave it another chance and report back to see if that still persists. 

If you're already using 1.5.0 and you still see that please let me now as well.

  I use two of your themes, and Gauges does the same to me too. Don't understand why, but the other themes do not. 

[joeblowma]

Well this seems interesting, keeping in mind I've had protect events in multiple other themes as well as in wattage mode when the profile's stored resistance was about double what the current coil was... with gauges 2.1.0 it was getting really annoying today so I went into the profile editor via the little i icon in the bottom right and turned on replay (and never locked a puff in) and haven't had it happen once since, it seems to be performing consistent with the uninterrupted puffs I had before I turned it on without locking a puff as well. I edited the conditions on the gauges main screen so I can still adjust temperature there (which I did a little out of wack because I can still edit the temp when replay is locked in) without having to toggle replay off, and so far... real good.

Again I still don't think it's the theme, or the others wouldn't be hitting protect. Hopefully the devs see this workaround and it at least gives a direction to look for possible bugs.

Edited August 31, 2018 by joeblowma

[Nexolek]

Huh, guess I'm not going crazy. This happens to me as well (though it's somewhat rare). I use my own theme which is loosely based off of Material-ish Ocean. I don't have anything updating while firing though. In fact I always use stealth mode.

I use the same theme on 5 75c devices and I've only had this happen on a 250c. Every now and then it just doesn't fire. Doesn't matter what atty I'm using either. I only use TC though so I'm not sure about wattage. Hopefully a firmware update will fix it?

[pw82]

It's a shame this seems to be getting ignored, I get a more enjoyable consistent TC experience out of $50 mods as it stands. If replay didn't work perfectly I'd have returned the mod ages ago.

[Si98justme]

42 minutes ago, pw82 said:

It's a shame this seems to be getting ignored, I get a more enjoyable consistent TC experience out of $50 mods as it stands. If replay didn't work perfectly I'd have returned the mod ages ago.

I agree, fortunately I have 3 other DNA mods which aren’t giving me issues... otherwise I would likely have moved onto other brands.

We had to wait a long time for this board, and almost 6 months and 3 pages of posts later, we still have not seen an update addressing this issue. If replay wasn’t an option this thread would be inundated with people having the same issues.

I doubt it’s a hardware issue since for the most part TC works perfectly,  so when Evolv eventually sees this thread hopefully it will be a fast turn around for an update...

[Pete1burn]

This is a weird issue.  I'm using a brand new coil, .25 ohms SS at 400 degrees.  When it works, it's perfect.  Good vape and flavor.  But at certain times, it will show the Temp Protect message, and just not fire.  Like at all, until I either unscrew the atomizer to reset it, or I reboot it.  It will work for 2 or 3 more vapes, then Temp Protect again.

Not sure what is going on, but it's definitely not reading the temps correctly, as most of the time, it works perfectly fine for hours at that temp.  Then suddenly for no reason, you get that message, and it will refuse to vape.

[iLLNESS]

Having this issue as well with my 250C (Lost Vape Triade). It's normally been a minor thing but we just got a nice heat wave today and I've been getting it every 2 or 3 puffs when outside while the ambient was 32C. If I move into the AC the issue seems to resolve itself. This is well below the upper limit that is set in escribe. 

 

I took a look at the board temp while it was throttling and it was reporting in mid 30s. Perhaps users with bad throttling issues could try tossing it in the freezer for a bit to see if it helps limit the throttling. I have a sneaky suspicion it's a bug in the code that's throttling the device because it's calculating the board temp to be too high, or the board temp is being misreported on screen.

 

One thing to note is this particular devices board temp was causing me issue during case analyzer. After a night of sitting at 22C (verified with a digital thermometer) as soon as I plug it in it sits in the 30s (or 90F+) which compared to what I've seen others report is far too high for an idle board temp in that temperature). 

 

In the mean time I've bumped the max ambient temp up to 55C to 43C to see if that helps. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by iLLNESS

[joeblowma]

A little over a week using it daily in TC mode only, with the 'replay' toggled in the gauges onscreen profile editor but never having locked in a puff at somewhere over 1k puffs... I've had one temp protect occur towards the end of a ~3s puff just after changing the target temp. Disabled replay via the profile toggle and it behaved for a little while, maybe 15 or 20 puffs and then started throwing temp protect again fairly often.

@iLLNESS I spent a little time trying to see if what you say is replicated here. Sitting idle for a good while my mod seems to read at 28-30C directly from idle, my room being somewhere around 22-23C. I chain vaped it for a 30 or 40 puffs (with the replay switched off, after vaping a tank dry and pausing to refill it) the board temp reached 37C, but interestingly I never had a temp protect occur while it was hooked into mod monitor though those did start up again shortly after I shut down the PC.

It's all just intermittent enough, and possibly going under the radar on the forum going by the quiet from evolv (I think they haven't even pushed the 'mod won't turn on fix' past beta), that I don't have much hope of seeing it fixed. Maybe they'll prove me wrong though, now that the new pod board is getting out there.

[halford]

Just to add to this, I got a DNA250C device a week ago and it was working great. I flashed the Guages theme to the device, then fitted a new build and kept intermittently having the device drop out displaying "throttling". So I rebuilt the same coils again ensuring everything was good, then again after a while the same throttling message appeared. Stumped I put back the other atty with the build I was using all week and the same thing happened. Flashed back the default theme and I've no issues since even with the same atty and build that was throwing the "throttling" message with the guages theme.

[joeblowma]

You will, eventually. Maybe not as often, but I'd rather not at all. So far enabling replay recording (but not playback) seems to be mitigating the issue for me, whether that is because while replay is recording it's "smoothing" the results and filtering the readings that are causing the protection to trip, or because doing so impacts timing in an update loop, or... who knows, I'm not privy to the code. What I can say though, is either finding a reliable workaround or better a way to cause the problem every time (in this cause gauges increases the occurrence which is better than nothing and in my mind at least shows there is definitely something wrong in the software somewhere) is the best info to give a developer.

Barring feedback from the dev and seeing a lack of updates for some time now, as I said previously, for the time being I'm going to just assume the firmware is essentially abandonware on this point and what I thought was an investment in a great product which was known for it's excellent TC ability along with excellent after sale service is an overwhelming fail on my part (except in the instance the board itself proves to need warranty service, maybe... I didn't exactly wait patiently for retailers to stock this box in Canada which has only been relatively recently occurring.)

[halford]

@joeblowma Do you have any suggestions on how I could reproduce this issue stock? I'm interested to see if I can. I'd like to add some data to this being a manufacturer design issue, QC issue, theme issue (which should not matter) or combination of previous.

[joeblowma]

So far the only way I've gotten it increase in frequency (as much as 4 in 10 puffs when it's being ornery) is using gauges or other themes that are 'busy', simpler themes like carbon or the one that came on my paranormal do it much less but still do it (maybe 1 in 20 or 30 puffs.) Sometimes it happens early in the puff (0.6s), and almost makes you feel you haven't gotten anything at all right from the start and other times it gives you a part puff before it occurs (1.1/1.8/2.4s my 'typical' puff seems to be somewhere around 2.5-3s) so watching the screen is necessary, as unfortunately this event is not logged along with the recordings.

That the theme affects it at all is basically all the evidence I need to think it's a software issue rather than a mfg/qc issue and not something that we can correct ourselves, which will likely crop up relatively randomly in themes.

[halford]

Completely agree that a theme should have not have an effect on the TC performance. After going through 30ml of liquid at around 600 puffs on the default theme I can't say I've come across the issue again though.

[Pete1burn]

I am back to the stock theme, and even reset the mod to default.  Still having the same problem occasionally. 

[ASaabDudeSC]

Okay, I was having the same problem recently, about a month into owning my Paranormal.  I found a solution for me, give it a try and see if it works for you.   
1.  Go into the Atty settings
2.  Manually adjust the coil resistance to about .2 Ω lower or higher than the current measured resistance
3.  Fire the mod a couple times
4.  Go back to Atty settings
5.  Manually or automatically change the coil resistance back to what it should be or what it is reading at room temp.

That should fix it for good until you change the coil again.  I know it's annoying but hey, we're using Temp Control, we have it kind of easy not having to change cotton and coils as often as kanthal users.  Until Evolv comes out with a patch for this, hopefully my solution can help you out.

Edited September 16, 2018 by ASaabDudeSC

[Pete1burn]

Did not work for me.  My mod is currently reading the coild at .41 ohms on a .32 coil (cause it's warm, I know) and changing it to .29 or .46 then changing it back does nothing.  I let the mod read the resistance at .41, and at 600 degrees, it still says "Temp Protect".  EVOLV!  What the heck is going on here?!

[Ramius]

I'm in the same boat. Sadly, my ticket hasn't been responded to as of yet. The build on my Manta is 0.32 Ohms on my other mods, but is reading 0.34 on my Paranormal. Temp Protect message all of the time, sometimes in Watts mode. Locking in 0.30 seems to allow it to work temporarily, and I have even loaded a more accurate TCR curve for my SS316L, which has a slightly higher Ohms/meter than usual stainless.

I have, however, just gave my firing pin a wiggle with a pen lid (at work, no small tools), and gotten underneath it to attempt to lift it a touch. Now my Ohms are reading 0.32... Just waiting to go and have a toot on it.

I believe my issues started from a new RDA that I used, a Dead Rabbit, which I was struggling to take the top cap off and over-tightened it by accident. The RDA's 510 pin is slightly long, so I'm wondering if it has forced the pin down a bit too much.

[iLLNESS]

Aside from the gauges theme, does anyone know of another theme that uses a high amount of the 'off board memory'? Gauges currently uses 99.9% of the off board memory on a 75C and 250C compared to the default of around 30%. Suspecting this to potentially be an issue, I found a theme similar to gauges in how many screens/features/data it has called Clean Colors. This theme uses 72% of the off board memory and so far does not suffer from the throttling issue. The throttling can be reproduced 100% of the time on my mod simply loading the gauges theme and the only thing out of the ordinary I can see is that gauges uses the max amount of off board memory.  Perhaps there is a miscalculation with how EScribe determines the available off board memory and the data in gauges is messing with or overwriting the code of the DNA under certain conditions causing a miscalculation leading to the throttle.

 

Just a hunch, but there is clearly a reason why gauges is suffering from this issue more than other themes. 

On 6/19/2018 at 4:44 AM, SirTimmyTimbit said:

Sorry I didn't know the chip was able to show two different messages for those two conditions. I thought like most chips it would all fall under "throttling" or "temp protect". I'll change it back to Temp Protect in the next update.

@Pete1burn I was going to suggest removing the custom status from the language tab to see if it helps. If anything you would see the default message that the chip sends. But if it's cutting out your power when it shouldn't it's out of my league. I assume the max puff time is well over the puffs you were taking?   

When the theme had a flicker (and a half second lag) prior to v2.0 this problem made more sense. I cut down on the number of fields that updates while firing as well. 

SirTimmyTimbit, any chance you could whip up a test version of gauges with some things removed to drop down the off board memory usage? I'd do it myself but I honestly don't understand what affects the off board memory usage as I'm not quite skilled in the theme designer.