VapingBad

You are splitting the watts with series batteries, just the same as with series resistors. Consider that half the voltage is coming from each P = IV/2.

Thank's Wayneo, there is a pdf with 1.2SP5 in the EScribe program folder called EScribe.pdf %appdata%\Evolv\EScribe\Escribe.pdf I hadn't done any python before I read that. The only tricky bit was a closure using lambdas in a loop, it was easy to tell that was the issue, harder to solve, used the default argument ( lambda x,y=p: ) to force it to evaluate in the loop. You would need to change lossCompensationFactor = 1.0/0.85 tolossCompensationFactor = 1.0/0.98 for the DNA200, you could monitor each cell individually as well

No, unless you make a mod with dual parallel battery connections limited to 2/3 the power of a 3 cell set up.

The VTC5A would be better, the 6 is only 15 A continuous according to Mooch, the ohms you plan to use don't make a difference it's the power levels. At 15 A continuous the VTC6 would be good to about 80 W, but Mooch warns they will get hot. The main things are to use atties with good connections, keep 510 and battery terminals clean.

Have a look at Options - User Interface

But you are splitting the watts between them . At the batteries 133/0.98 (98% efficiency) = 135.7 W or 67.85 W per cell current = P/V = 67.85/2.75 = 24.7 A if you take both together the low cut-off would double current = P/V = 135.7/5.5 = 24.7 A

Using it to compare batteries at different wattages E typo 30Q at 50 W Wh at full capacity should be 7.205 not 1.205

No, I have ran 0.03 ohm on 75, 200 & 250, though I prefer to stay a little higher at 0.05 ohm. The board controls the current and it is the current limit that is important at low ohms, but the current from the batteries will be lower than the current to the coils as the voltage has been stepped down. Worst case (highest battery current) is when the battery is low it needs to supply more current to make up the required power: At the coils 133 W in to 0.06 ohm gives current = sqrt(P/R) = 47.6 A, voltage = sqrt(P/R) = 2.82 V At the batteries 133/0.98 (98% efficiency) = 135.7 W or 67.85 W per cell current = P/V = 67.85/2.75 = 24.7 A

Recently I was asked if I would test a couple of AOSO 18650 batteries and give an opinion by one of the organisers on the London and South East Vapers vape meet. They had already had the usual pulsed constant current tests and other people had reported puff counts and mWh for their normal use pattern. I wanted something that was informative for vapers, nobody vapes at a constant current. The efficiency of the board also has an effect, here is the current a battery will have to supply for 25,50 and 75 watts for a mod with 85% efficiency like the DNA 75, but the DNA 75 low cut-off is a quarter volt higher so max current would be 32 A. I have removed the start of the lines as even the best batteries cannot supply that current without that much sag. The EScribe battery analyser is more realistic as it is pulsed constant power, far more like the way people vape, but with 10 second vape and 30 second gaps you can build up a lot of heat at 75 W. Looking at https://www.ecigstats.org/global-stats/ average puff time is under 3 seconds, so I though I could do something with the IronPython scripting in EScribe Device Monitor. This has the additional benefits that anybody with a DNA 75, EScribe V1.2SP5+, a spare dripper deck and some Kanthal can use for free. We could also share results, repeat other's tests to verify them, load them in Device Monitor (or many other apps that handle csv data) to look at details and compare them. (BTW If you record the EScribe Battery Analyzer test you can also load these into Device Monitor) From the start I wanted puff time, gap and power to be easily changeable settings and to set a max board temp limit, but the more I tested the more I added to my wish list in terms flexibility and what I wanted to measure. If you look at the script you can see the settings at the top. With testing at 75 W some of the batteries could not keep doing 3 s puff at full power for very long, but still kept going and 90% for quite a while, so I made that measurement part of the test as well, actually you can add a list of decreasing percentages to record now. I started testing at 75 W, 3 s puff, 57 s gap and found that after the battery couldn't supply enough power they still had a lot of charge that took far too long to test with 3 s puff every minute. The solution I came up with was to increase the length of the puff so it still drew the same amount of energy and while not exact it works very well. Like the limp home mode on your car this is using the DNA's soft limiting where you can at least get something to for your nic craving. Testing this one battery I saw do this for a long time before doubling the length of the puff so I record that as well. You can see the DNA's soft limiting in action in Device Monitor when the battery drops to the low cut-off voltage (default 2.75 V) the output power is lowered. So the test has 3 stages: 1 measure puffs where the battery can supply full power. 2 measure puffs where the battery can supply a given percentage of full power. 3 increasing puff time to compensate for lower watts just noting the point where puff length doubles (I think most people would have stopped vaping by then) and the remaining power which is not really useful for vaping. (Stage 1 & 2 are exact tests, stage 3 is a little fuzzier just because there is no way to tell the board to take x watt hours. I just extend the puff time by the proportion it fell short on the previous puff as it varies between batteries which is fair and consistent, but I think vapers would be taking more energy at this point.) Here is a old 25R that is near the end of its life. Here are some examples of puffs at different stages (all a AOSO 42 A, 75 W 3 s puff, 57 s gap). The first is a fully charged battery, 2nd is the last puff before the sag hits the low cut off. The 3rd it hits low cut off in the middle off the puff, note the yellow line falling. The 4th & 5th the sag is at the limit for the whole puff, you would have swapped the battery or charge by now if you could, but could still get a weaker vape. The 2nd pic of puff is where the test is lengthening the puff time trying to keep the yellow energy line at the same level as for the full power puff. I saves 2 files, the csv that EScribe records and a text file with the summary shown in the message window. How to run the test I want to make it clear that this is what is working for me and provided in all good faith, it is your responsibility asses risks and to ensure your personal safety, the safety of anyone or anything else that could be affected, basically only use at your own risk I take no responsibility for the fitness or safety of the script or the process. Do not use it if you don agree with these conditions. Make a resistance below 0.5 ohm on your dipper deck as you would for Battery Analyser, I use 4 parallel loops of 0.5 mm Kanthal about the diameter of a tennis ball. I also you a couple of old computer fans to provide extra cooling at high powers. Make sure the mod is stable and the coils are safely away form kids, pets and anything that could be damaged by heat. Copy the script into a text file, save and change the file extension to py, I chose to do it this way so it can not pass malware and you can see it before you put it on your PC. Open the file in a text editor like notepad++ or notepad and adjust the settings at the top, they should be pretty self explanatory. Set your computers power saving settings so it will not sleep, hibernate or shut down USB for the duration of the test. Open Device Monitor, click Diagnostics - Disable USB Charging, set the Graph Options - Time Scale to something sensible, 60 seconds to and hour 3600 seconds. Then click Diagnostics - Run Script and find the file, that's it a message box will pop up when it finishes, close Device Monitor if you want to stop it running. [CODE] # DNA 75 Battery test script for use in EScribe V1.2SP5 Device Monitor. # Disable USB Charging in Device Monitor before running. # Ensure your PC will not go into sleep mode while running. # At high powers your mod and battery can get very hot, take care. # If the board temp is at the max setting after a rest period the script will keep resting until is cools. # USE AT YOUR OWN RISK # # Thanks to Evolv for providing the free tools to do this. # Written by VapingBad # test settings, things you will probably want to customise batteryModel = '25R' nominalCellVoltage = 3.7 puffPower = 50 puffTime = 4 restTimeBetweenPuffs = 46 dataCollectionPoints = [90,80] outputFileFolderPath = r'C:\data' # no trailing slash maxPuffTime = 20 maxNumOfMaxTimePuffs = 6 # safety cut-offs maxBoardTempF = 125 minBatteryVoltsAfterRest = 2.8 maxPuffCount = 1000 # DO NOT ALTER AFTER THIS POINT # DO NOT ALTER AFTER THIS POINT # DO NOT ALTER AFTER THIS POINT import time import datetime from System.IO import Path # set up EScribe Device Monitor tracking, fields plotted and saved in the csv file if Recorder.IsRecording: Recorder.StopRecording() ECig.ClearTracking() ECig.Track('Power') ECig.Track('Battery Pack') ECig.Track('Last Puff Energy') ECig.Track('Last Puff Time') ECig['Power Set'] = puffPower; time.sleep(2) # Homer Simpson guard clauses if minBatteryVoltsAfterRest < 2.75: minBatteryVoltsAfterRest = 2.75 if maxBoardTempF > 200.0: maxBoardTempF = 200.0 if puffTime > 20.0: puffTime = 20.0 if restTimeBetweenPuffs < 2 * puffTime: restTimeBetweenPuffs = 2 * puffTime if maxPuffTime < puffTime: maxPuffTime = puffTime if maxPuffTime > 20.0: maxPuffTime = 20.0 # conversion factors and constants secondsInAnHour = 3600.0 milliToBaseUnitConversionFactor = 0.001 lossCompensationFactor = 1.0/0.85 wattHourToMilliAmpHourFactor = 1000.0/nominalCellVoltage wiggleRoomFactor = 0.98 # classes class puffLogger: def __init__(self, lable): self.lable = lable puffs = 0 energy = 0.0 volts = 0.0 test = None next = None def copyReadings(self, fromThis): self.puffs = fromThis.puffs self.energy = fromThis.energy self.volts = fromThis.volts def checkPuff(self, puffEnergy, data): if self.test(puffEnergy): self.copyReadings(data) return self else: return self.next class compensatingPuffTime: def __init__(self, setTime, maxTime = 20.0, maxExtPuffs = 5): self.setTime = float(setTime) self.maxTime = maxTime self.maxExtPuffs = maxExtPuffs expectedPuffEnergy = 0.0 increasedPuffCount = 0 increaseFactor = 1.0 reachedLimit = False timeDoubledData = puffLogger('Up to double length puff') def puffTime(self): return self.setTime * self.increaseFactor def calcNextPuff(self, lastPuffEnergy, allPuffsData): factor = self.increaseFactor * self.expectedPuffEnergy / lastPuffEnergy if self.setTime * factor > self.maxTime: factor = float(self.maxTime) / self.setTime if self.increasedPuffCount >= self.maxExtPuffs: self.reachedLimit = True else: self.increasedPuffCount += 1 if factor < 1.0: factor = 1.0 if factor > 2.0 and self.timeDoubledData.puffs == 0: self.timeDoubledData.copyReadings(allPuffsData) self.increaseFactor = factor # variables date = datetime.datetime.now() expectedPuffEnergy = puffPower * puffTime / secondsInAnHour #* wiggleRoomFactor puffTimeCompensator = compensatingPuffTime(puffTime, maxPuffTime, maxNumOfMaxTimePuffs) puffTimeCompensator.expectedPuffEnergy = expectedPuffEnergy globalLogger = puffLogger('Battery capacity') fullPowerLogger = puffLogger("At full power") fullPowerLogger.test = lambda x: x >= expectedPuffEnergy * wiggleRoomFactor # chain puff tests together, when the test fails the next test will take it's place previous = fullPowerLogger for p in dataCollectionPoints: dp = puffLogger('Up to {}% power'.format(p)) dp.test = lambda x, y = p: x >= expectedPuffEnergy * wiggleRoomFactor * y / 100 previous.next = dp previous = dp # make timestamped file names fileName = 'BatteryTest {0} {1}'.format(batteryModel, '{:%Y%m%d-%H%M}'.format(date)) outputFileNoExtension = Path.Combine(outputFileFolderPath, fileName) csvFilePath = '{0}.csv'.format(outputFileNoExtension) txtFilePath = '{0}.txt'.format(outputFileNoExtension) # ACTUAL BATTERY TEST Recorder.Record(csvFilePath) initialVoltage = ECig['Battery Pack'] currentLogger = fullPowerLogger while True: if ECig['Board Temperature'] >= maxBoardTempF: time.sleep(restTimeBetweenPuffs) continue ECig.Puff(puffTimeCompensator.puffTime()) time.sleep(restTimeBetweenPuffs) # there is a delay before this value is updated lastPuffEnergy = ECig['Last Puff Energy'] * milliToBaseUnitConversionFactor globalLogger.volts = ECig['Battery Pack'] globalLogger.puffs += 1 globalLogger.energy += lastPuffEnergy if currentLogger is not None: currentLogger = currentLogger.checkPuff(lastPuffEnergy, globalLogger) if currentLogger is None: puffTimeCompensator.calcNextPuff(lastPuffEnergy, globalLogger) if globalLogger.volts <= minBatteryVoltsAfterRest or globalLogger.puffs >= maxPuffCount or puffTimeCompensator.reachedLimit: break if Recorder.IsRecording: Recorder.StopRecording() # format, save and show result summary resultText = 'Battery test {} {:%c}\nInitial voltage {:.2f} V, Nominal voltage {:.2f} V\nTest: {} W, {} s puffs, {} s rest periods:\n'.format(batteryModel, date, initialVoltage, nominalCellVoltage, puffPower, puffTime, restTimeBetweenPuffs) writeResult = lambda r: ' {}:\n Puffs = {}\n Energy = {:.3f} Wh, {} mAh\n Resting Voltage = {:.2f} V\n'.format(r.lable, r.puffs, r.energy*lossCompensationFactor, int(r.energy*lossCompensationFactor*wattHourToMilliAmpHourFactor), r.volts) p = fullPowerLogger while p is not None: resultText += writeResult(p) p = p.next resultText += writeResult(puffTimeCompensator.timeDoubledData) resultText += writeResult(globalLogger) with open(txtFilePath, 'w') as file: file.write(resultText) UI.Message(resultText) [/CODE]

Not undermining me at all BL, I was just saying that if you like say a 8 wrap 2.5 mm 26 AWG Ti coil, then start with that when trying ss rather than shooting for res. I only shoot for res with Ni and then only to stay above 0.04, other than those upper and lower mod limits to me it is just detail and not a target since I stopped using mechs.

3.09 for LiPos, lower for 18xxx

/topic/66189-topic/

Don't sweet the small stuff, these boards are greater than the sum of the parts IMO, they could have made just as good or bad board with another processor. It's like having a computer some people write Pulitzer prize books or do research helping to cure diseases, others troll or watch porn, it is the software (fw in embedded chips) and the hw circuit that makes the magic as long as the processor has the features to support that.

Like ohm which wire metal is not important choosing what size coil to make with VW mods, make a coil the same construction that you like, wire thickness, ID and wraps. Of course you have to stay within the min and max ohms of the device, but other than that ohms are not helping anyone IMO. If you find you make a coil same warps etc as Kanthal and it hits temp limit too soon add another wrap or 2, get some more surface area, airflow or wicking. A little over simplification, but the difference between metals are tiny compared to differences in coil size IMO. Don't worry, start with what has worked for you before and experiment a little or a lot. (Power is the most important variable when choosing how to wrap your coil and you didn't say what you vape at.)

Clapton just means a thin wire wrapped around another wire, usually thicker, that looks like a wound guitar string, the wires could be any metal and different from each other.

Just you Karloz

I agree they should really have the settings available, but I believe the default battery curve is from the 900 mAh Fullymax Evolv use and should be the same as say a 1300 mAh Fullymax as the curve (taken at the same watts). It is what percent capacity vs voltage, the actual capacity (Wh) is a separate setting, a really sensible way to split the info IMO, so like chunky I just set the Wh then sometimes run the analyser if I'm bored, it's a nice to have and important for unusual batteries, but not vital for most users. Another benefit of BA is if you run it when you get your mod, then a year down the line you want to check how much capacity your battery has you have real data from a repeatable test for your actual battery.

Yeah I believe that LiPos curves are all similar unlike 18650s, it is only to make the battery gauge more accurate, nothing to stress about, but the cell number and battery type are though they need to be right.

The default curve should be good for most LiPos, just need to set the Wh.

I though he said on another forum it is still when there in not atty, hence my answer, but you can workout any current fitting a coil and measuring the voltage across that, P = V squared over R.

I don't have an answer more an observation that voltage is not flow just potential difference, there is voltage between battery terminals but until they are connected no current flows and no power is used, so that alone is not evidence that is the source of your leak. You would need to measure some current in the 510 wires, which then would point to some resistance in the 510 and what most people normally call a partial short. I would get the microscope out and look for solder balls on the PCB they are impossible to spot without serious magnification, an OK USB microscope is ideal or a strong jewellers loop at a push. It would be easier to find if it was a lot of power as it would generate heat.

Measures the temperature of the board, if that is broken it will not be able to find cold res correctly or compensate for temp changes from the mod. Try opening a ticket with Evolv they may replace the board under warranty for you https://helpdesk.evolvapor.com/index.php?a=add&category=1

Wire types and other settings are the same across the devices, but I don't think you can use a 200 confing on a 75. Mooch is right as usual, the soft cell cut off is the min voltage under load and you battery will be over 3 V when it hits this limit, if at high power maybe as much a 3.5 V. I am testing some batteries ATM and for example a 30Q is hitting the limit in 3 seconds when it's resting voltage is 3.86 V running at 75 W, but AOSO 42A 2600 mAh it is at 3.54 V.

I would expect the case thermals to be different for the 75, the test measures how heat is dispersed while charging at different rates and easy to do yourself. Yes 3.09 V soft cell cut-off is higher than you would want with an 18650 or you will get short battery runtime because of the higher sag they have than LiPos 2.75 V is a good value. Mod res should the same if they all use the same 510 & wiring. You will need to choose Advanced or Manufacture under Options - User Interface in EScribe to get to the settings on the Mod tab.

I suspect if you change your Watt Hours setting to 80% of the current value it will all work fine, that would suit your vaping style and make the battery gauge more accurate for you. This is probably because you vape at over twice the power battery analyser is normally run at and are using setting from that, an ageing battery would also partially explain it.