Hadron Pro - 1.1 SP33 US/INT to SP45 INT...irreversible changes?/

[franticseven]

After 12 months without a big DNA mod Black Friday reared it's head and I picked up a Hadron Pro for £90 / $120.

Read the instruction manual, connected to Escribe. Made sure that the power pack was charging evenly on device manager and waited patiently for 1A charge.

The first full charge ldropped to 50% after 12 hours at 50w. Ii'm happy my dual 18650/21700s mods would be on the second or third set by then.

So....checked the cells again and recharged on a 2A plug in,

Curiosity got the better of me and I made the golden error? of updating the firmware.to SP45 INT.

No idea what the difference is between the two as I  can't find a listing but battery drop has increased...EDIT minus.5% overnight

Then on the next charge I read the very small print on the side plate....not just a battery safety warning.

Use Firmware 1.1SP33 TO save battery life with less idle discharge. This firmware is preferred for battery longevity

So I reset the firmware and battery drop is still  faster 2-5%.

I remember a few years ago I updated a DNA 200 and there was a universal update that changed the core settings and couldn't be reversed ...is this the same?

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by franticseven
errors

[Wayneo]

Yes, SP33.2 does have a shorter timer before the mod completely powers off. IIRC SP45 is ~24 hours.  That very low power draw is done to make it more responsive to button presses. Also, If it actually powers off, it has to do the New Coil check based purely on resistance.

Are you saying your mod was shipped with SP33.2?

[franticseven]

Thanks for the fast reply, perhaps the timer update is locked once upgraded?

yes, its was supplied with SP33  and is recommended - but it's tiny.

Nothing in the manual besides disconnecting when out of use long term to prevent total discharge on idle

Edited December 2, 2021 by franticseven
spelling

[artisonore]

Hello. I also had the same problem with the Hadron Pro. I inadvertently installed the SP45 and noticed the same problem as you. Now I have reinstalled the SP33.2 INT hoping to fix and hoping that the timing is not locked at 12 hours. Fingers crossed. Unfortunately I have not read that very small notice inside the box and I read franticseven's post just now. Pity

Edited February 1, 2022 by artisonore

[illogik]

On 12/2/2021 at 1:47 PM, Wayneo said:

Are you saying your mod was shipped with SP33.2?

Hey Wayne. I just got a Hadron Pro today which shipped with SP33.2 on it. I also didn't notice the warning on the inside of the battery cover and just upgraded to the newest firmware. Then found this thread 10mins later and reverted back to SP33.2.

You think I should just go with the newest version and ignore the Steam Crave recommendation?

[Wayneo]

Yes. This will be a bit longwinded. For all those reasons I wrote before
That very low power draw is done to make it more responsive to button presses. Also, If it actually powers off, it has to do the New Coil check based purely on resistance.

But 
NO battery knows anything about a % (percent).They only talk in volts. 16.8V for you guys
If your battery charges each cell to 4.20 volts it is full based on the default curve.
If your mod shows 95% in the morning, using the default curve, each cell should be at 4.15 volts, or maybe just 1 of those 4 cells has dropped to 4.15 volts. 
That would be a drop of 0.05 volts per cell.

Many themes will show individual cell voltages, but even better, escribe Device Monitor (click cell 1, 2, 3, 4) will show how each cell is operating while in use (taking a puff)

Why don'cha post a device monitor screenshot 

 

[illogik]

6 minutes ago, Wayneo said:

Why don'cha post a device monitor screenshot 

Well, my battery charged to 100% according to the mod but then instantly dropped to 97% after 1 puff lol.

 

[Wayneo]

At least all 4 cells look equal. 👍 Many mfgr's do not run the 'battery analyzer' for their batteries. I don't know if they did, but it will make that % value or an icon more accurate. Sorta like idiot lights in a car. 

Anyway if you want to, YOU have access to their tools
Using escribe on your PC, For the MOD tab to appear - Options (menu bar) -> User Interface -> Manufacturer
Then choose 'Battery'

This requires maybe an hour, an RDA, a fan. Let me know for more details if any/all of you 3 want to.

[illogik]

I may well do tomorrow, I'll get back to you Wayne. Gonna be off to bed shortly. Does it have to be an RDA? I've not even used any of my SC tanks in RDA mode yet, believe it or not :p

What would this achieve? Make the battery % more accurate?

Also, I reloaded the latest firmware.

[Wayneo]

On 2/11/2022 at 5:25 PM, Wayneo said:

it will make that % value or an icon more accurate

for your battery. Even now, it does not affect your mod in operation. You can use it down to the 'weak battery' warning, knowing the 'check battery' will soon be there. Your battery standing/unloaded voltage will not be below 3 Volts for any cell. 

Notice I still talk volts, you still talk % 😉

[illogik]

11 minutes ago, Wayneo said:

Notice I still talk volts, you still talk %

Ye ye, gimme chance! I've been used to % for ages! I also don't have anywhere near the vast amount of electronics experience that you clearly have. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by illogik
typo

[Wayneo]

Two things @illogik
Do you remember what volts (or %) your batteries showed when you finally put it down?
Do you remember what volts (or %) your batteries showed when you first picked it up? 

Looking at the datasheet, there's a Quiescent Current (while you were sleeping) of 10 mA 

[retird]

Another thing that might help is to charge to full charge cutoff (while watching in Device Monitor). When the charge completes (100 %) leave the device plugged in and see that the 100% charge drops a bit (say to 97%) but it doesn't start charging again. Unplug from USB and plug back in and it charges again for a short period to 100%.  I alway thought after charging the battery settles from charging a bit thus dropping slightly off 100%. . The drop from 100% to say 97% is very nominal if you look close.  Also look at the battery CSV in Escribe. An example is an 18650 battery at full charge say is 4.2 volts and at say 94.6% it is 4.1 volts.  So 1/10th of a volt. That's nominal Also remember that when charging voltage and amps are being fed into the battery thus the reading can change as the charging stops. Have noticed this for years.  Quiescent Current is very minute but constant while not using.  

And looking at your screenshot 97% equates to a voltage drop of approximately 0.023 volts at each cell... and is the battery csv taylored to your 4 cell battery configuration? 

[retird]

This is the default 4 cell builot-in Battery CSV from Evolv in case you wnt to compare:

 

[BillW50]

The proper way to charge lithium batteries to to charge say 3.7v lithiums to 4.20v @ 100ma (some use 50ma) and then cutoff when current drops less than this. The current will drop lower and lower as it gets closer to 4.20v in a charger. Once the charging stops, the battery will always drop a few percent. If you don't stop charging at 100ma (50ma) once the battery level reaches 4.20v, you are overcharging and it will quickly shorten the life of the cell. If you want to double the life of the cell, you should stop charging 3.7v lithium cells at 4.10v @ 100ma. You can change charging to stop at 4.10v with DNA200, 250, and 250C boards with EScribe (maximum recharges). I wish this option was available with their other boards. Maybe they can't because of the chips they are using or something.

[retird]

Good point @BillW50.... Max puffs vs. Maximize Recharges.....  

[BillW50]

 

[illogik]

6 hours ago, Wayneo said:

Two things @illogik
Do you remember what volts (or %) your batteries showed when you finally put it down?
Do you remember what volts (or %) your batteries showed when you first picked it up? 

Looking at the datasheet, there's a Quiescent Current (while you were sleeping) of 10 mA 

I didn't check last night mate but I will check tonight (if I remember)

[illogik]

2 hours ago, retird said:

is the battery csv taylored to your 4 cell battery configuration? 

No, I've done nothing to customise the mod besides changing the theme. I'm really not that savvy with electronics and batteries etc so I'm pretty much at the bottom of this learning curve.

[dwcraig1]

I have adjusted the battery curve with this CSV, this is for charging to stop at 4.1 volts per cell. It is adjusted to show 100% charge at 4.1 volts per cell. This is how I do all my Lipo powered DNAs, the battery will have a much longer life. Save your battery CSV first and give this one a try, you can always go back. Remember to upload the settings each time that you make a change and want it to stick.

Edit: Be sure to change "Maximum Puffs" to "Maximum Recharges and upload settings.

DNA250C 4 cells at max recharges.csv

[dwcraig1]

Here's how it looks

Edit: need to change maximum puffs to maximum recharges, I forgot that very important detail....duh

 

[illogik]

14 hours ago, dwcraig1 said:

I have adjusted the battery curve with this CSV, this is for charging to stop at 4.1 volts per cell. It is adjusted to show 100% charge at 4.1 volts per cell. This is how I do all my Lipo powered DNAs, the battery will have a much longer life. Save your battery CSV first and give this one a try, you can always go back. Remember to upload the settings each time that you make a change and want it to stick.

DNA250C 4 cells at max recharges.csv 232 B · 2 downloads

I'll try it now. Thanks very much! 

[Wayneo]

Device Monitor uses that battery curve voltage value for the Level % after the 4 cell voltages BUT

If you're gonna follow the screenshot @dwcraig1 showed, see that label in his pic that says 'Maximize puffs', that MUST be changed to 'Maximize recharges' for charging to stop at 4.10Volts
 

[illogik]

19 hours ago, Wayneo said:

Maximize recharges

Yep, it is. 

[illogik]

Could someone please tell me what is the safest maximum charging amps I can use to charge this lipo mod? So far I've just been charging it via my pc which of course is a 1a charge. I have also been using a 1a charger when not plugged into my PC. However, I do have a 2a and 3a charger I could use. Would these both be safe to use?

Thanks