Lanzarotechris

How to set up a DNA properly ?

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Hi guys and gals,

As I struggle with the different options on my Triade DNA250C, and seem to get lost in the settings,

maybe someone (from the evolv staff maybe) can explain it so every customer can act accordingly to get the best vape out of it.

---

Maybe we can use an example like this:

I use a SS316L fused clapton wire (24GA*2 +32GA) on a single coil setup. It came out with 0,87 ohms. Its actually running with 30 watts now.

---

On a "simple" mod I set it to 30 watts and that's it. Probably I will add some preheat as the coil is quite slow because of its mass (let's say 50% more power for 1 sek.)

If I want to use TC I change the watt/power mode to TC SS316L. Then I choose a decent temp (maybe related to the liquid I will use in the atomizer, as different flavours react at different temps) let's say 235°C.

---

That is my basic setup until now... I can raise or lower the wattage if it is too cold or too hot, I can raise/lower the preheat if the first puff is not decent,

and I can adjust the temp setting when in TC accordingly to the liquid to get the taste I like.

---

But now I have the Triade DNA250C, wich gives me much more options, like REPLAY, BOOST and/or PUNCH (and then with or without them of course),

some with temp settings, other with a bar, another with both of them. Then I also have even more options when using escribe.

---

How do I set it up correctly to get a decent vape, because when I change one of the many settings, the result is sometimes quite different (and problably influences the other settings I already made).

I normally love to have different options to get things done, but when it is getting too much, and one option changes the result drastically, so you have to manipulate the other options to "fix" it,

then it is not what I would call "user friendly" anymore. I changed different settings/values and it is either too cold or too hot or does not taste well, and I have no idea why or which specific setting/value is not right.

---

So someone at the manufacturer did probably put some thought into it, and had some general way to do things, but that part is missing in the maual 😉

I also don't want to spend hours to set up a coil to get a decent vape out of it.

---

But as my different approaches to that were not successful yet (and I change settings continously for about a week now !),

I really like to get some help (and I am shure some other people have or will have the same problem one day)

how I can do this in a systematic way, so I can do this over and over again with every coil/atomizer I own.

 

Thank you in advance for your help !

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I think you misunderstood my question.

I am not looking for a review or walk through the menu, and I know what the replay mode does (more or less).

What I am looking for is a description about how to set up a coil X from scratch.

In which sequence do I set the settings ? First preheat and then replay ? Or first boost and then punch ? Or the other way around ?

Or which setting do I have to change when the result is not successful ? Do I change the wattage or the boost or the punch or the bar of the replay ???

The reviews I already watched before I bought that device... AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO "YELL" ... I can read small letters just fine ;-)

And yes, there are a lot of videos out there,... so hey, maybe we can close this forum for good because every question is already answered somewhere on YT ?

I don't think everything is well explained on youtube... because like most "social" media, it lacks in depth... and THAT'S why there are forums like this...

for the people who have detailed questions that are not answered in the superficial world (like a forum with a 140 characters max. for an entry would be stupid too).

At least that is what I thought until now... maybe I am wrong.

If you manage your DNA as well as it sounds, maybe you can explain to me why I have difficulties to do so... and what I do wrong. That would be helpful.

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Sorry I misunderstood your posts......  

There are many ways to adjust the settings to get the results you want.  I may do it one way and somebody else may do it another.  Some, of the settings you mention should be adjusted to get the vape you desire. When you find that then do Replay.  

If your coil doesn't heat fast enough then adjust preheat, boost, warmth, or whichever function you need to to get the coil heated quicker.  Adjust the Temp and/or wattage, depending on whether you are using TC or Watts.  Replay is activated (saved) only after you get that great hit.  You may need to vape once, twice, or more using the settings you set to achieve the hit you want to save (Play).

Folks have different ways they set the settings to get the results they want to Replay.  Only after you get that great hit do you press Replay to (Play).

Also there is a lot of posts in this forum where folks talk about replay so you might google Replay in the 250C and 75C sub-forums. 

Using EScribe Profile named Replay (if your  Theme has that Profile) you will notice different settings are available depending on the Material you select.   Adjust till you get the hit you want then "(Play) Replay. You night spend some time in this Profile to find the hit you desire from the coil you use.  

 

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1 hour ago, retird said:

There are many ways to adjust the settings to get the results you want.  I may do it one way and somebody else may do it another.

 

1 hour ago, retird said:

adjust preheat, boost, warmth, or whichever function you need to to get the coil heated quicker

 

1 hour ago, retird said:

Folks have different ways they set the settings to get the results they want

 

1 hour ago, retird said:

you will notice different settings are available depending on the Material you select.   Adjust till you get the hit you want

Now we get to my point... I quoted some of your comments, as that is exactly what I "complain" about... there are so many options, and, like I said in my first post, I try tweaking here, change setting there, ... since 1 f**king week, but I still can not find "THE" one setting that I am looking for.

I agree that there might be different ways to get to the point, but I can not find it by trying here and there without a plan. Until now its just a waste of time, and I am not closer to my target as I was 1 week before.

Like I said, on a "simple" mod there are 3 "screws" where I can adjust, power, temp and preheat. That is something I can scope with and keep track of. But with this I have like 10 screws, and for some of them there isn't a clear description what they actually do, so how am I supposed to know what I am doing right now ???

It feels like a car with 3 steering wheels... where it should have only one (if you know what I mean). So, is there some kind of "ruleset" or masterplan which I can follow to get what I want ? Or do I really need a certificate to use this ?

Then Evolvapor should probably put a Info into their ads that this product needs a special license to use 😉

Back to my request: I KNOW what MATERIAL I use, what OHMS the coil has, and I can tell more or less precise what WATTAGE I will run it.

I also can say that I need (or need not) PREHEAT and can give an estimate percentage of that (like in my example in the first post...)

THAT'S IT ! That's my facts I know ! Material, Ohms, Watts, and Preheat.

But BOOST, PUNCH and some of the other settings are UNKNOWN... so how should I know what they change if I just have no "data" or just a bar without any reference what it actually tells ??? Its fu**ing guesswork, and its not working for me.

For example: In the preheat settings I have a Wattage (additional to my main wattage setting) a Temp. (also, additional to my main Temp. setting, and a Preheat/Punch bar)... WTF ??? I guess not even you can tell me in what relationship they are to each other and to my main settings...

Do you get the point ? Its not user-friendly, its a mess ! Settings without values and no clear definition ! Who designs such a **** ?

Sorry for my bluntness, but some things really p*ss me off, and if companies tell me "hey Replay is great, it makes things sooo much easier, blablabla..." but then there are 20 different functions they don't tell you about, but that you have to find out by yourself before saving "the perfect vape" to REPLY it over and over again... and I wasted already much more time than I needed to learn building coils, then NO, its not a great device which makes things easier !

And now you tell me:

...people do it differently,.... bla,... folks have different ways,... blabla,.... just adjust it til you get what you want... bla...adjust preheat, boost, warmth, or whichever function you need...bla

So in short: You have no idea ! Noone has apparently, otherwise someone could explain it !

... thank you very much !

But as I am a positive thinking guy, and this is an open forum, where everybody can jump in,... PLEASE DO SO ! Where is that one person who can tell me what to do (or what you guys do,... )

Or alternatively I like to get some other users to confirm that they all have no clue and do just guessing and trying with different settings and by chance one day they find the combination of settings that produce an acceptable vape (wich of course is still not "THE" greatest vape, but they are also sick of try-guessing so they leave it at the acceptable-level before waisting more time on it).

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I only read a few lines of your rant.....  you are really frustrated (sad)......my DNA background for 8 years speaks for itself (good or bad)..... sorry I have not been able to help you.........hopefully . somebody else with more knowledge, or a better way to explain Replay,  may pop in and help....  The video I posted where Brandon was interviews included a simple explanation from Brandon about Replay.... oh well..... hope you find what you seek..... 

Again, spend some time using the Replay Profile I mentioned.... 

 

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Just to add a few points.

  • When you plug in your mod, the escribe display will change depending on the board type. Some will show different options/features.
  • When I get a new juice or coil I'll run a tank or two in straight simple watts. TC can blast through flavors or even burn or mute them at different temps. When I understand the juice and coil I'll fire up Device Monitor.
36 minutes ago, Lanzarotechris said:

I KNOW what MATERIAL I use, what OHMS the coil has, and I can tell more or less precise what WATTAGE I will run it.

I also can say that I need (or need not) PREHEAT and can give an estimate percentage of that (like in my example in the first post...)

THAT'S IT ! That's my facts I know ! Material, Ohms, Watts, and Preheat.

But BOOST, PUNCH and some of the other settings are UNKNOWN... so how should I know what they change if I just have no "data" or just a bar without any reference what it actually tells ??? Its fu**ing guesswork, and its not working for me.

Boost Punch for the 1 second PREHEAT you want. Slider 1-11, proportional depending on settings.

Device Monitor tells all and will show exactly what's going on with each parameter change.

I can't figure out if you're ranting about using your mod in Watts mode, Replay in watts mode, TC, or TC with Replay. And I cant talk about the UNKNOWN settings, cuz I just don't know about them.

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@retird

yes, I am frustrated,... I have never had so much trouble with a mod. And adding to that that noone seems to be able to explain the idea and/or the function behind some settings/values doesn't make it easier for me to find a proper (and reproducable) way to set it up. I worked over 15 years in customer service for computers (hard- and software) and if this product would be in my department I would kick the ass of the guy who built it 😉

Or as I always say: Keep it user-friendly, keep it simple, so everyone understands it ! Some products try to be a (as we in germany say:) a egg-legin wool-milk-pig... (like trying to put as much functions and settings into one piece of hard/software as possible...) But I think that is the wrong way to do things.

Point is: I was (and still am) so happy about my Therion DNA75, and even I love my eVic AIO, because they just work, and if the vape is not good, there are only 3 settings to tweak to make it good.

But this ... monster... how can you expect people to be happy about it when they have to guess and try to get even an exceptable vape out of it ?

I even can imagine if someone buys this thing and get to the point of frustration where I am now, they put it into the closet and start smoking again. Because smoking cigs is much more simpler ! Nothing to fiddle around, just put it into your mouth and light it up !

And THAT should not be a valid solution don't you think ? So from that point of view this product is really not how it should be.

And if someone now says "yeah, but its a sophisticated product for experienced vapers who know what to do with it" then I must reply, that that was never in any ad,

or any YT video ... they all just told me that replay is soooo simple because it does everything automatically for you !

Well,... maybe one day I will get to the point where I can finally activate the replay function because I finally got the vape I like to re-play !

Until now I am still searching for it...

 

@Wayneo

1 hour ago, Wayneo said:

I can't figure out if you're ranting about using your mod in Watts mode, Replay in watts mode, TC, or TC with Replay. And I cant talk about the UNKNOWN settings, cuz I just don't know about them.

Sorry, but I thought I mentioned it before:

16 hours ago, Lanzarotechris said:

I use a SS316L fused clapton wire (24GA*2 +32GA) on a single coil setup. It came out with 0,87 ohms. Its actually running with 30 watts now. 

On a "simple" mod I set it to 30 watts and that's it. Probably I will add some preheat as the coil is quite slow because of its mass (let's say 50% more power for 1 sek.)

If I want to use TC I change the watt/power mode to TC SS316L. Then I choose a decent temp (maybe related to the liquid I will use in the atomizer, as different flavours react at different temps) let's say 235°C.

So,... Wattage Mode works fine (like any other mod), but when I activate TC, the taste gets flat, so I have to raise the Wattage to get the same result as without TC.

When I think its ok, I activate Replay, and then the result changes again (I guess because of Boost/Punch/Bar) settings... and I have to re-set and to re-adjust again and again... and that is not only frustrating and a waste of time, but also user-unfriendly and confusing. And compared to the Therion DNA75 or even the cheap eVic AIO (40,-€) its quite unacceptable to be frank.

And now I prefer to vape on my old/cheap devices, as I can not get the same nice vape out of the sophisticated and expensive Triade DNA250C.

So I decided to post this request here to get some help, because I thought maybe I do something wrong, ... but now it seems like maybe its not my fault. I don't know how many users have the same negative experience (and for a forum its quite quiet here, sadly... I wish there would be more activity and maybe some people who agree or disagree, so there would be some "transfer of knowledge" between users) or at least can tell me how to proceed.

Some 20-30 years ago this post would be flooding with replies... well... ain't that times anymore I guess.

I started with the same settings like on the Therion DNA75, as I thought they are both DNA devices, so that is a good point to start from. But that seems not to be the case... so there is no consistency at all.

That and the fact that I own now 5 mods and 11 attys (and 2 more are on the way from china) makes me think that the Triade DNA250C is by far the worst buy I made for all vape gear.

Unless I may find a solution for my problems... maybe here,... maybe by trying another week with different settings,... I don't know. But I don't want to give up. Not only because of the money I spent on it (and won't get back) but also because I am a technician and think I handled some more difficult machines before. But to master it it would be very helpful to know what it does, right ?

And here the circle to my first post is complete 😉

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31 minutes ago, Lanzarotechris said:

On a "simple" mod I set it to 30 watts and that's it. Probably I will add some preheat as the coil is quite slow because of its mass (let's say 50% more power for 1 sek.)

YOU are over complicating things, and using terminology that has different meanings here. 

Use your 30 watts in a straight Replay profile. No TC, just a TC capable material/wire. Adjust the BOOST PUNCH to Preheat your wire. Enable Replay, when you like the puff. Turn down warmth. Only think flavor. If you have an issue after that, tell us.

Once you START ranting, I stop reading. Sorry man, just trying to be helpful.

OR

If TC's working for you, just use that

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They could certainly improve on the user info available,  great boards but poor in that respect IMO.

 

I can't advise on replay as I only briefly played with it, been using TC on DNA boards for a couple of years though and learnt to get the best out of it (for me anyway) through experimentation.

How I set TC up

My goto set up:
Edge mods Type R
SS316L fused clapton (2 x 0.36 + 0.06 wrap) 7 wraps 3.5mm ID.
Various 75C squonk mods

I set power first. I'm not worried about fast ramp up with this, I set enough power that can comfortably increase coil temp under my normal draw, use device monitor if you want to find this visually, around 45 watts for this atty.

Set temp to get decent flavour.  If the vape is too warm or too cool then I'd change the build.

Enable preheat.  I set preheat power at 70W for this atty/build, it can be as much as you think your build can stand.  I'd start with preheat punch around 7 or 8 and adjust to taste from there.  In case you don't know what preheat punch does, it changes the the temp at which it cuts off the preheat power and drops down to your main power setting.  The higher the punch the nearer to your set temp it stops preheat.

What I'm aiming for with the settings is that there's enough preheat power to blast through the useless no vapour zone, then the power drops and you get a slower ramp through 'the flavour zone' up to the main temp limit.

 

HTH

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@Wayneo

11 hours ago, Wayneo said:

Use your 30 watts in a straight Replay profile. No TC, just a TC capable material/wire. Adjust the BOOST PUNCH to Preheat your wire. Enable Replay, when you like the puff.

I will try this on the weekend. If it works then its the answer I was looking for... a simple systematic way to set new coils/attys up !

Wasn't my plan to complicate things. But I wonder why this kind of answer wasn't given from the beginning ?

BTW: As I was clicking around in the preheat section, I discovered that sometimes I can change the preheat temp and sometimes I can not.

Can't remember exactly what the circumstances were, but I will keep an eye open if it happens again.

Any idea to that ?

BTW2:

11 hours ago, Wayneo said:

and using terminology that has different meanings here.

What is this related to ? Which terms did I use wrong ? (not that I want to excuse for being a foreigner, but you never finish learning something new, right ?)

And I always try to explain things as detailed as possible to prevent confusion and missunderstandings...

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@Chris Musampa

Thank you chris, that sounds promising !

I will try that this weekend and will come back to you with my conclusions.

Only detail I am missing: What are the ohms that your setup is comming out with ?

You forgot to mention that 😉

I normally build around 0,3 ohms and vape around 30-50 watts, depending on atty, mod, juice and mood 😉

My hardware is:

1x18650 mod 75 W, a dual cell Therion DNA75, a Reuleaux RX300 (4x18650) a Desire 166 squonk mod (2x18650) and now the Triade DNA250C.

From the atty side: 2x single coil RTA, 5x dual coil RTA, 3x dual coil RDA, 1x mesh RDA and on transit from china is another dual coil RDA and a single coil RDA.

So I guess I am quite flexible what I can set up 😉

My main interest is in flavour, not in clouds (I guess I'm too old for that kiddy stuff) 😉

As I said, I will try all tips I got here this weekend.

Thanks again for your help !

Have a nice day !!!

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One last thing about the device monitor:

Since I got the latest versino installed its so slow and stuck always. I have literally wait for a minute or 2 for it to un-freeze.

I run it primarily on latest ubuntu linux, but also have a parallel installation on WIN8.1, and both behave the same. Its quite un-usable this way !

Any fixes on the way or any work-arounds ?

Also the readings on the same atty are different when connected with my DNA75 or the DNA250. The ohms are not identical for example (0,182 vs 0,174)

DNA75.png.2b2e4777a250dd5b6c7c3888a00535

 

DNA250C.png.937f2c37516e3a36bd3182a1a010

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2 hours ago, Lanzarotechris said:

BTW: As I was clicking around in the preheat section, I discovered that sometimes I can change the preheat temp and sometimes I can not.

Can't remember exactly what the circumstances were, but I will keep an eye open if it happens again.

Any idea to that ?

............................. What is this related to ? Which terms did I use wrong ?

No idea if you're talking in a Theme (which can vary), or Device Monitor. I'll talk Device Monitor so you know what CAN be available in a theme.

In a Profile where a NON TC material has been selected you can do a BOOST PUNCH. Set 1 second slider. Effectively a hard normal soft like other mods, to give a beefy coil that extra to start vaping quicker.

In a Profile where a TC material has been selected you can do a Preheat of the coil. You Preheat it by punch/watts, either by a slider 1-11 again (notice no timer), or to a temp, before the Preheat function ends. 

 

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Ok, got that, thanks 😉

I use some theme from this webpage... dunno the name, let me check...

Clean-Color-Black-ONE-WATT-2_4.ecigtheme

... which is quite detailed.

On the REPLAY tab I have switches for: Available, Ready and Active,

and a slider for Warmth.

On the PREHEAT tab I have a switch for Enable,

a Power setting in Watts, a Target Temp setting in °C,

and a Preheat/Punch slider.

Sorry, my mistake that I did not mentioned that I don't use the basic/standard theme.

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I must be missing something here. How much more simple can it get?

Up the power until you get a vape you like. Press Replay. Done. End of.

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2 hours ago, DMAN said:

I must be missing something here

you're absolutely right ;-)

But to elevate you to our level of discussion,... we were talking about the effects of TC, Preheat, Boost and Punch and some other options which changed the outcome of that vape.

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@LanzarotechrisIt's really up to the theme author and what he has chosen to be displayed or changed. There is a special review and comment section for each.

6 hours ago, Lanzarotechris said:

On the PREHEAT tab I have a switch for Enable

Instead of calling it the Preheat/Punch tab, just the word Preheat allows the use of a larger font. For display purposes I would have used the same, but for troubleshooting, the quasi official Evolv definitions/norms (for me anyway, is the only way for my old tired brain to think in wattage or TC (actually TP) mode. :)

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4 hours ago, Lanzarotechris said:

you're absolutely right ;-)

But to elevate you to our level of discussion,... we were talking about the effects of TC, Preheat, Boost and Punch and some other options which changed the outcome of that vape.

I will leave you to your elevation. You are too high for me, I just want a nice vape.

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8 hours ago, DMAN said:

I just want a nice vape

And I want a perfect vape 😉

I guess that's the little differences in life...

It's like cooking. You can just throw anyting into a pot, or you can take a little more time and do it perfectly.

The result can be a big difference.

But when it is ok for you, don't bother. Noone will force you to do something.

Have a nice vape !

😉

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9 hours ago, DMAN said:

I will leave you to your elevation. You are too high for me, I just want a nice vape.

Maybe I can lower the elevation a bit.....

As long as you get the vape you desire what else matters or even how you got there?  Replay was designed to take the "Fiddle" out of getting to the "perfect vape" and you have seen how it can work with not much "fiddling".. 

Before Replay came along I spent many hours, heck, many days adjusting the PH, Punch, Temp setting, wattage, and etc. to get the "Perfect Vape" .  Temp Protect was, and is, a great thing in many ways so I achieved the "Perfect Vape for me" using the same settings, the same atty, the same coils, all DNA devices were calibrated using Case Analyzer, and etc.  Thus my vapes were as consistent as I could get them  using the same massed produced coils in several identical MTL RTA's.  The vape was always the same over my "herd" of devices so the days and days of fine tuning was worth it....  Fast forward to Replay and so what did I do..... I took the same settings I had in my TP Profile and made a Profile I would use in the Replay Profile. mode and took a vape, and a second vape,  and then set Replay to play.  ....  The key, no matter how you get there is to first find that perfect vape (either in TP or Power mode) and  set that puff to Play in Replay.   Now my vape from my devices, except the Orion, use the same coils, same RTA, same e-liquids, same DNA technology, and etc.  All using Replay and "fiddle free" .  Since beginning to vape 8 years ago I always wanted as "fiddle free" as I could get with the latest technology.  

The Orion has pre-sets for DL and MTL coils in the pods.  Simple to just start with the lowest preset and move up till you get the vape you desire and press Replay....  There is more adjustments that one can do using EScribe but that is another subject....

Sorry for the long-winded post but hopefully this brings the elevation a bit lower for you, and others....

Enjoy the vape.....  😊

 

 

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Thats what I like to archieve too.

But I am not yet at the point where I can record and re-play that perfect vape.

It's still work in progress. I really like to get to the point of "fire and forget"... but for that I first have to find the right settings.

That's why this post is not called "How to set up replay properly". I still fight with the other settings.

Replay is at the end of that process. But interesting that people still bring it up, even when the discussion is about the way to get there,

to get that great vape that is worth to replay it over and over again. Its not correct to say replay does everything for you...

You still have to find the right settings and then you can record that puff to replay it.

And then of course there are people who don't care and just want to vape and don't look for details how to refine it.

OK, some people also don't care about the food they eat. I do, and then you always end up in details and nuances and things get complicated or technical.

I don't care about the hussle, I like to archieve the optimum. Not only in vaping, but in general. When there is a possibility to make something better, I like to at least try it.

Does everyone have to do it ? No. But I think I am not the only one who don't likes things "standard" or they way they are when you get them "out of the box".

If it can be better with the available resources, why not go for it ? And if the tool/device has many options to manipulate settings, I try to get the best out of it !

That of course includes a lot of time, trying, rebuilding, re-setting, reading, understanding, questions and trying again and again.

Otherwise I would use a 5,-€ one-way vaping device from the gas-station and not a 150,-€ mod and some 130,-€ atomizers.

Edited by Lanzarotechris
typos

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On 10/26/2018 at 9:34 AM, DMAN said:

I must be missing something here. How much more simple can it get?

Up the power until you get a vape you like. Press Replay. Done. End of.

Just to add to this thread, I agree with the above, somewhat.

 

But what isn't clarified is how far you can go. Based on what you said, I decided to up the temp in replay mode, above what is recommended for the coil. So now for example I've upped it to 300 degrees c which is 572F. Above what the coils can take, but it gives me a good vape. I guess it is about having the "guts" to just do as you say, up the power until you get the hit you want. Don't pay attention to the wattage limits, I'm sure the mod will keep it safe.

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28 minutes ago, Darkstar_ said:

Just to add to this thread, I agree with the above, somewhat.

 

But what isn't clarified is how far you can go. Based on what you said, I decided to up the temp in replay mode, above what is recommended for the coil. So now for example I've upped it to 300 degrees c which is 572F. Above what the coils can take, but it gives me a good vape. I guess it is about having the "guts" to just do as you say, up the power until you get the hit you want. Don't pay attention to the wattage limits, I'm sure the mod will keep it safe.

That's what I do, I trust the chip to sort things out.

When I build a coil, or use a stock coil, I have a rough idea what power it needs. I start low and up the power until I get a nice vape then Replay it. It doesn't matter to me if Steam Engine says it needs 85 watts, i'll run it at 60 watts if it vapes fine, or go past 85 watts if needed.

I guess it could drive you nuts if your the type that needs to know exactly how something works. :)

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I read all your comments. You still have not stated what the issue is for the "perfect vape." Is it too hot, too cold? What is the problem? I think you might be confused about preheat/boost/punch. I am confused a bit on those issues too, that's why I am here browsing the forums.

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