SS 316L Temp Control Issues

[Atlas Gallivant]

I've been searching for days, trying to figure this out on my own but I can't seem to do it. I've been trying to get SS 316L to work in temp control and it seems to be very difficult. For instance, I will build coils (or use pre-made, I've tried both), and I aim to be somewhere around 0.4-0.5ohms. I lightly dry burn SS 316L at 10watts in a dark room and get all of the hot spots out. I then wick the coil and measure the cold resistance in Escribe. My most recent coil comes in at 0.4 @ 72° room temp, but when I vape the coil, the resistance also rises (I know SS 316L does this), but it will raise or lower from 0.39-0.45 and my mod can't seem to account for this variation correctly.

Vapor production quickly declines and flavor mutes. I've tried countless different .csv's but none of them seem to fix the issue. In my most recent build, I will attempt to fire 0.4ohms at 40watts 475° but my mod will usually ask me if I connected a new atomizer at 0.43ohms. If I choose 'no, use old settings' then my vapor is basically non-existant. If I change the resistance to 0.43 then the temp control is all over the place and I will get dry hits.

Any advice? Are my builds just crappy/inconsistent? Should I try a material that isn't SS 316L? I've tried spaced coils and they seem to work a bit better, but not by much. Do I need a different .csv? My atomizers are Gas Mods GR1 and B2K. 

Tha. nks! 

Edit: I've made sure that my lead connections are extra secure, that's not the problem. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Atlas Gallivant

[Jonski]

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will be along shortly to help you out but for now , what mod are you using and do you know if it has been properly calibrated using the 'Case Analyzer' .

Also , I use Daniel DJLsB's .csv for SS316L .

I only use SS316L , 6 wraps, spaced coils and they come out around .45 and work flawlessly on my Lost Vape Therions in TC but with the dawning of 'Replay Mode' I have left TC behind .

[engmia]

Something is definitely not right. I only use 0,5mm (24AWG) SS316L and it works flawlessly in temperature control.

Is the bottom screw on the GAS GR1 tight? Also I don't quite understand when the board asks for a new coil? It asks for same/new coil only when I replace my coil, as it should. If it asks you this question during your vaping, it's a quick way to find out you have a loose connection either in the atomiser or in the mod/510.

[Atlas Gallivant]

8 hours ago, Jonski said:

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will be along shortly to help you out but for now , what mod are you using and do you know if it has been properly calibrated using the 'Case Analyzer' .

Also , I use Daniel DJLsB's .csv for SS316L .

I only use SS316L , 6 wraps, spaced coils and they come out around .45 and work flawlessly on my Lost Vape Therions in TC but with the dawning of 'Replay Mode' I have left TC behind .

I will try some more spaced builds and see if that helps. The mod is a US Modz Hybrid Stinger. As far as I know, it has been set up, and I remember the mod resistance being 0.0004 or 0.004, whichever one has the right amount of zeros. I'll check when I get home. Maybe I need to buy one of those 510 attachments and run the case analyzer myself? 

12 minutes ago, engmia said:

Is the bottom screw on the GAS GR1 tight? Also I don't quite understand when the board asks for a new coil? It asks for same/new coil only when I replace my coil, as it should. If it asks you this question during your vaping, it's a quick way to find out you have a loose connection either in the atomiser or in the mod/510.

Yes, the screw on the atomizer is on tight. What's happening in the resistance of the coil is raising high enough for my mod to prompt and ask if it's the same coil I was vaping on before. I could raise the threshold higher so that the mod wouldn't ask me if it's the same coil when the resistance changes, but I don't think that would solve the problem. 

[engmia]

19 minutes ago, Atlas Gallivant said:

I will try some more spaced builds and see if that helps. The mod is a US Modz Hybrid Stinger. As far as I know, it has been set up, and I remember the mod resistance being 0.0004 or 0.004, whichever one has the right amount of zeros. I'll check when I get home. Maybe I need to buy one of those 510 attachments and run the case analyzer myself? 

Yes, the screw on the atomizer is on tight. What's happening in the resistance of the coil is raising high enough for my mod to prompt and ask if it's the same coil I was vaping on before. I could raise the threshold higher so that the mod wouldn't ask me if it's the same coil when the resistance changes, but I don't think that would solve the problem.  

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I'm using exclusively spaced coils as well (ease of use + health concerns with dry burning).

I've found sourcing those 510 attachments expensive and hard in Europe, but if you have a good deal for one go for it, it's something that will always come in use and you might use to calibrate. However the issue you are describing is not caused by the internal mod resistance setting and will not be solved by running the case analyser. In fact for the mod which I have built I have set mine to 0. I've tried adjusting it a bit, but didn't have too good results so adjusted back to 0 and I find it to be accurate compared to other mods. Having an inaccurate internal mod resistance will cause some differences between the temperature shown on screen and the actual temperature of the coil (which you can mitigate by changing the temp setting on the mod) but it will not cause random jumps in the resistance reading or the issues you are describing.

 

What you're describing might be caused by one of three issues (troubleshoot as listed, as they are listed by ease of troubleshooting):

1) Wrong CSV profile -- although you already said you are using Daniel's profile, try re-downloading it and uploading it back to the device. Also try the SteamEngine SS316L profile which I have been using and has been working great for me for the last two years.

2) Loose connection betweenn atomiser and 510 or loose connection between 510 and the board -- causing the mod to lose connection to the atomiser for a second, then when the atomiser is "re-attached" reading the resistance of the heated coil and asking same/new since the resistance has change too much inbetween the lost connection and the subsequent reconnect. Should not happen at all if everything is operating normally -- like I said it should only ask you in the case that you actually changed the coil.

3) If you have verified that the above two, there are not a lot of options left:

-Fake wire. You are using the correct profile, no loose connections -- means the wire you are using is claiming to be SS316L but it actually is not. It's not a clean wire and not formulated the way SS316L should be. As such, in reality it is not SS316L and you are using the wrong TCR profile for the wire. This will explain the issues you're having. If that is the case, do NOT play with the TCR values but rather toss-out the wire and to tell us who the vendor was...

-Faulty board (sounds quite unlikely in this scenario, but not impossible). To rule this out, try a different atomiser and a different coil which you have verified and know work well with temperature control

Edited June 8, 2018 by engmia

[engmia]

@Atlas GallivantOne thing I forgot to mention about, to help you with point number 2 -- troubleshooting the loose connection -- you can use the "lock ohms" feature of the board. I personally reject to use it and never have used it since everything should be working fine without you needing to lock and unlock your ohms every time you change an atty (and fortunately for me it is) but in cases like yours where you are experiencing issues it's a very essential tool.

[Podunk Steam]

Have you tried replay mode?

Stainless does what I call "settling in" even after the coils are lightly dry burned. The reason I asked about the replay mode is that the 75C will accommodate a stabilized vape even through this "settling in" process I've mentioned. The trick is to not take the mod out of replay once initially set, another lesson learned the hard way.  

[Atlas Gallivant]

On 6/8/2018 at 12:13 PM, engmia said:

1) Wrong CSV profile -- although you already said you are using Daniel's profile, try re-downloading it and uploading it back to the device. Also try the SteamEngine SS316L profile which I have been using and has been working great for me for the last two years. 

Thanks, I got pretty sick last week so I hadn't been vaping, but I re-uploaded the v3.5 CSV and tried a new coil. This time I spaced it (most of my coils have been contact), and it seems to be working a lot better. Is SS 316L prone to hotspots? I'm wondering if my contact coils may have developed hot spots after vaping on them. Either way, this new spaced build seems to be much more reliable and I am going to experiment with more spaced coils in the future. Thank you for all of your help! 

32 minutes ago, Podunk Steam said:

Have you tried replay mode?

Stainless does what I call "settling in" even after the coils are lightly dry burned. The reason I asked about the replay mode is that the 75C will accommodate a stabilized vape even through this "settling in" process I've mentioned. The trick is to not take the mod out of replay once initially set, another lesson learned the hard way.  

Yes, replay was giving me bad dry hits. However, I've found a spaced build that seems to be more reliable and I'm actually using replay mode successfully! It's great, and I also learned not to mess with replay once you've been vaping on the coil, haha. Thank you! 

[Podunk Steam]

The stresses imparted into the metals during manufacturing and coil building can cause them to move after being heated, so yes there is potential for hot spots after lightly dry burning contact coils. I gave up contact coils with TC circuits long ago, good to hear you're on the right track now.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Podunk Steam
Contact!

[Pphish]

Sounds to me like a mod resistance problem, or likely an unstable connection in the atomizer itself... Especially if replay mode causes dry hits

[engmia]

On ‎6‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 6:20 AM, Atlas Gallivant said:

Thanks, I got pretty sick last week so I hadn't been vaping, but I re-uploaded the v3.5 CSV and tried a new coil. This time I spaced it (most of my coils have been contact), and it seems to be working a lot better. Is SS 316L prone to hotspots? I'm wondering if my contact coils may have developed hot spots after vaping on them. Either way, this new spaced build seems to be much more reliable and I am going to experiment with more spaced coils in the future. Thank you for all of your help! 

Yes, replay was giving me bad dry hits. However, I've found a spaced build that seems to be more reliable and I'm actually using replay mode successfully! It's great, and I also learned not to mess with replay once you've been vaping on the coil, haha. Thank you! 

Every contact coil is prone to hotspots -- it doesn't matter if it's kanthal, stainless or whatever. That's why people who build contact coils dry burn them before hand, since it's hard to know whether you'll actually get a hotstop (and most of the times you do, I've been curious how the manufacturers handle this issue as the contact coils they sell do not appear to be dry burned).

I do exclusively use only spaced coils, since I do not want to dry burn my coils for health concerns (Dr. Farsalinos and others have said that you are destroying the structure of the metal by heating it to such high temperatures, even with a "slight" glow) plus you save time in building. It's definitely more stable in temperature control.

Another thing I forgot to ask is what atomiser you're using? Something which might cause the jumps in ohms (0.39-0.45) as you described, is also a loose connection inside the atomiser (either a spring or a screw not tightened hard enough). For example, on my Innokin Ares I had problems with my resistance jumping all over the place because the screws holding the coil itself weren't tight enough and the coil had a bit of play. Some atomisers have inherent issues with temperature control due to their design (implementing a spring in the design being the most often fault).