dry hits or weak puffs in TC with new DNA60 esquare

[dnk]

I got my esquare yesterday and I've been messing with it pretty much ever since.

Background: I have an Alien 220 and a goon 24mm i run as my normal set up. Got a merlin mini RTA with the esquare and have been playing with them both. The alien can be finnicky with the TC, but it is pretty good about not giving me a dry hit.

Materials: I'm using 24x36 single core clapton SS 316L with single coils in both my Goon and Merlin. In the Goon i tried first it with 5 wrap spaced 3.5mm twisted coil. Now i am running a single coil 6 wrap, 3.5mm spaced coil, ohming around .33-.36. On the Merlin i started with a simple 6 wrap, 3mm contact coil. Now i have a 3mm 6 wrap spaced coil in it. Both times it ohmed around .30-.34.

Settings: I ran stock 316 and got whispy airy hits. Uploaded the steam engine 316L profile. Still whispy. Made a profile (we will call 316L2) with the TCR set instead, tried .000895 - .00095 with better results around .00095. 20-30W pre power, 1-.25s preheat, 5-9 punch. 375-475F. 42-60w.

The situation: Now, when i first coiled and wicked the Merlin and turned the esquare on, right out of the gate i got a decent hit. Then i got a dry hit. I tried again and got another. Broke it down, the Merlin's wick was wet at the bottom but dry at the top. Simple, too much wick. Rewicked, tried again and that is when the whispy hits started. They were at least DECENT, but my alien definitely does better.

Try my goon, same problem. Fiddle with temp and watts, nothing. So i pop open escribe and start reading about it. Create a 316L csv on steam engine, but nothing. Once i tried the 316L2 profile with the set TCR, i cranked up the temp to 475F and it was working better. Essentially it would kick into temp protection at like 25W max, but it went up to about 35W at 475F. Keep in mind i had prepower and power set 52-60W, but it never hit those wattages.

Start fresh today. Put the second set of spaced coils into each atty. Same problem. Take off the attys after a weak hit, replace it and it asks if its a new atty (which it only does sometimes on my merlin but always on my goon). New .33 (.35 on the goon) old .31, same on both attys basically. So i take the new, freshly fired coil resistance. Now i get a hit similar to my alien, but i notice now that the TC mode isn't throttling the wattage at all and not hitting TP. On my goon with saturated coils, this is fine. But with the merlin it is giving me CONSTANT dry hits. It is firing like it's in watt mode but it's in TC mode still.

I rewicked the merlin again, thinking maybe i messed up wicking again. Use even less wick and cut shorter than i had been. Still the same problem. Dry hit city. It is just awful.

I am at a complete loss as to what i am doing wrong. If i wanted a VW mod that had janky TC, i woulda just gotten another alien. And there is NO WAY my alien should be doing better than my DNA60 with the exact same settings in each. But, sure enough, it is. I took the dry hitting merlin straight off the DNA and put it on my alien, and i can hit it for like 5s with no dry hit. TC hits just fine on the alien. Any help you guys could offer would be greatly appreciated. If you need more info, let me know!

Cheers and happy vaping!

Edit: Just tried to dry hit my goon and i got it to where it would dry hit, but i didnt push it over the edge to see. I've had too many today and its making me fill icky. But i noticed the temp doesnt even get near the limit of 400F. it barely breaks 300F. It over throttles watts when its cold resistance and then doesnt throttle watts at all warm resistance. Something isn't right.

Edited June 9, 2017 by dnk
adding and tags

[Wayneo]

Before we start ..........

MOD tab -> Options (menu bar) -> User Interface -> Manufacture

Can you post a complete Printscreen of that mod tab ensuring you have scrolled to the bottom of the screen.

Printscreen of the Profile you're using

And finally a complete Printscreen from 'Device Monitor' with Power, power set, cold ohms, live ohms, and the 2 temperature options, while firing. 

Trash whatever 'material' files were on the mod, and download your own from steam-engine (like I believe you did).

Couple things about DNA mods

1. You should not lock your resistance unless you have a janky build or connection
2. Your coils before vaping should be at the ambient temperature

[millo_naty]

just incase... I have found that correcting the internal resistance to .011 improved the accuracy of TC.. hope this helps

 

 

[Wayneo]

30 minutes ago, millo_naty said:

just incase... I have found that correcting the internal resistance to .011 improved the accuracy of TC.. hope this helps

 

 

Knowing that a lower more conservative value or 0 is better than a higher number than actual ...... That's quite high as far as most mods go, not saying it's wrong, just seems high. How did you come up with that value?

[retird]

Of the 7 DNA devices I have the mod resistance on all of them is between 0.003 and 0.004 ohms.....If  I had a resistance of 0.011 ohms I would be checking the wiring, the grounding, and the 510 connector to see where the  difference is coming from or to verify the 0.011 ohm reading is valid for that device.......

[voxdub]

4 hours ago, retird said:

Of the 7 DNA devices I have the mod resistance on all of them is between 0.003 and 0.004 ohms.....If  I had a resistance of 0.011 ohms I would be checking the wiring, the grounding, and the 510 connector to see where the  difference is coming from or to verify the 0.011 ohm reading is valid for that device.......

Pretty sure I've also seen the 0.011 internal resistance quoted somewhere, possibly DJLsb's YouTube review. 

I've been using the 316L settings off steam engine and no dry hits although I use a lot lower wattage in general (22w standard and 30w preheat) and am still playing around a lot with TC as it's my first DNA mod and TC hasn't worked particularly well on any of my other mods. 

[retird]

@voxdub or @dnk could you post the *.ecig file for your esquare device. I'd like to have a look..... THX

[dnk]

So, I was asking around on reddit and someone suggested i try the DJaq 316L profiles (V4 V7 and V3.25). Updated my escribe to the 1.2 SP5 version, somehow i was using the 1.2.0 version. It still had the same Dec 22, 2016 SP3 for the DNA60, but i reapplied the service pack from the updated escribe anyways.

It seems like everything has gotten better since i switched the preheat power and the power and started using the DJaq profiles. For some reason i was thinking the higher value went in the power and lower in the preheat. doesn't make much sense now that i think about it though. It SEEMS that the problem was the stock 316 profile, the 316L profile i made on steam engine and the preset TCR .00095 profile i tried. I don't understand really why the DJaq profiles work better, but they do.

dnkEsquare.ecig

V4DJaq316L.csv

[dnk]

I just did these and i got a dry hit off my Merlin. The V4 csv's were on my goon. I'm gonna rewick it and see if that changes anything. I'm gonna pop it on my alien and try it out too to make sure it isnt the atty. But as i look back, it wasnt throttling the watts on my goon at all.

merlinV3.25DJ.csv

merlinV4DJ.csv

V4DJaq316L(uppwatt).csv

[millo_naty]

I just rechecked my sources and infact .0011 is the corrected internal resistance that was relayed to me. I am actually going back and forth trying to figure this out for the greater good. On my particular device DNA 60 Epetite, I have these settings in the internal resistance ant tbh it works great. Better than most other TC devices I have used minus one Asmodus Ohmsmium which was also decent. I do run an older Kayfun 4 single coil SS316L 26gauge .8 ohms... I have found that making sure to properly "LOCK" the resistance of a COLD coil makes all the difference. I have found also that although not entirely convenient once I have determined the "cold" resistance I go back to escribe and manually lock that particular resistance. You would only have to do this once(per atomizer) so its only really a one time burden. I have also tried this... Say the very first quick press gives you the cold resistance. Say its 0.15ohms. When I go back to Escribe, I may plug in .14 and possibly even 0.13 to make up for the quality variances of different wire. Not all 316L is the same.(even if in theory it is supposed to be.) I have also found this to be VERY effective, the downside being it would give you a slightly more anemic vape, so tune accordingly... Thats the beauty of Escribe, you can fine tune to your preference... DJLsb is very concise and dedicated to making sure his info is accurate before making suggestions as do I... I really hope this helps !!! 

[retird]

Thanks for posting your *.ecig file for your esquare....  I compared your thermals with the latest Lost Vape downloadable *.ecig file (downloaded from their web site just now) .  Lost vape shows 0.003 (default from Evolv) as the mod resistance and yours shows 0.  Also I noted both files are using  the default Evolv Thermal numbers thus is seems that Lost Vape did not run Case Analyzer on the esquare.  

You might run Case Analyzer and I think your temp's accuracy should be better.

[dnk]

31 minutes ago, retird said:

You might run Case Analyzer and I think your temp's accuracy should be better.

It seems i don't have Case Analyzer as an option on the mod tab. I have it on Manufacturer and it looks the same as a screenshot i saw, but the button is missing. using escribe 1.2 SP5

Should i just set the mod res to .003?

Edit: set it to .0011 and it actually works noticeably better. Will update tomorrow once ive used it more.

goonV3.25MR0011.csv

Edited June 10, 2017 by dnk
update

[retird]

Just looked at the Escribe DNA60 Mod page and didn't find case analyzer there either.... let me do some checking....

EDIT:   A great member here reminded me of the DNA60 thermals and etc.

This was posted earlier by Evolv: ( my memory is not as sharp as it was when I was 65)  " DNA 60 can't really use Thermal meaningfully, because the charging is off-board and it doesn't know much about it. The defaults should work well enough."

[Wayneo]

6 hours ago, dnk said:

It SEEMS that the problem was the stock 316 profile, the 316L profile i made on steam engine and the preset TCR .00095 profile i tried. I don't understand really why the DJaq profiles work better, but they do.

Because LV's is just plain wrong and why I suggested this .... without naming names.

 

20 hours ago, Wayneo said:

Trash whatever 'material' files were on the mod, and download your own from steam-engine (like I believe you did).

 

From your excellent Printscreen's move your preheat punch value to 11, and work slowly backwards to the ramp up you prefer.

And finally a complete Printscreen from 'Device Monitor' with Power, power set, cold ohms, live ohms, and the 2 temperature options, while firing.

Finally follow @retird info to set your mod resistance

[Wayneo]

@milo_natty you said -> just incase... I have found that correcting the internal resistance to .011 improved the accuracy of TC.
Then you said  -> I just rechecked my sources and infact .0011 is the corrected internal resistance that was relayed to me

Then you said, after a complete order of magnitude error,  info was 'relayed' to you, (hence my asking how you came up with that value)

Not all 316L is the same.    <- TRUE, and can vary by batch even from the same manufacturer.
(even if in theory it is supposed to be.) <- NO. Not a theory at all. It's an alloy. 

Here's the kicker -> ... is very concise and dedicated to making sure his info is accurate before making suggestions as do I

YOU might lock the resistance on your Kayfun v4 for best results, due to it's construction with 3 million pieces, but that's not the Evolv default or standard. Read up or search 'refinement', but there are much more efficient ways to achieve those same results. FYI, I'm running a Kayfun v5, no gyrations, and the vape is heavenly.

Good accurate TC is not meant to be hard. Have a good day.

[dnk]

It would seem that, according to DJLsb he measured the IR as 0.011 on the epetite and 0.009 on esquare. He shows it as coming set to 0.003 from the factory. Mine came set to 0. At 0.0011 i noticed things were better. Just changed it to 0.009 since i have an esquare. Will report back with an update.

But, i went to sleep last night with my goon on my esquare. When i woke up this morning it seemed to be functioning in watts mode. Temp cutoff was appearing as off on the screen and it started showing amps and volts instead of watts and board temp like i have it set to. Changed attys and it went away when i switched back.

I have read that using SS316L below 0.5ohms can be finnicky on TC. I'm using .3-.4 coils. Would higher ohms or 430SS be better?

[KYG]

Slightly off topic. I have a epetite dna 60 on kanthal and my device is showing a much lower resistance compared to my other dna, provari and dicodes devices. It measures somewhere 1.06 ohms on epetite but on other devices showing 1.20 - 1.24ohms. What can I do to fix this? Thanks.

[MikeyConti]

Most DNA’s do not have the Internal Resistance at the right value, while a lot of people using the DNA75 said “0” worked great for them, I did not find this true on all boards. A Lavabox was my first DNA mod and it didn’t have the right value in it.  On that DNA 200, it made a big difference too me.

Its always good to have The tool made for finding a DNA Mods actual Internal Resistance shown here https://forum.evolvapor.com/topic/66031-510-999-pure-copper-mod-resistance-tools/

You could also make one using an Atty...

Never got a chance to get a DNA-60, it’s the one board Perfect for my lower-mid wattage TC Vaping. Was going to convert a Hana V4 to one but during moving so much went and bought a pack of cigs...

Hope this helps future users who run into this who do not know about measuring themselves instead of going with a “Default” value that doesn’t match each mod the same!