people say I don't like tc

[craigdennis23]

I've been into 3 shops lately (last 4 days) and they're is always someone there commenting on how they tried temp control and went back to kanthal. I am trying to understand this. I figure it one of a few things, they don't know what to build with to have it work, they've tried plain ni200 and found out it sucks really bad, they tried tc with a sackless mod in tc like every other one sands the dna200. So with me trying to understand I had them all try my setup for curiosity sake (always have 1 of 3 dna200 with me). They then conclude they've never had temp control work that way and they're amazed but think I'm using voodoo or something. Anyone else hear this all the time and actually get it? I'm gonna guess I'm preaching to the dna200 choir. How temp control is suppose to work is the new slogan lol. Sorry for the rant. Have to know though

[black lace]

We can all rant, specially sitting here waiting for a train while on mobile . Quoting vapin bad, first rule of vape club, each to there own...Differnt types of vape shops about our mate. Some are what i call first stage, and credit where credits due, they are the starting block for people giving up smoking and sell a lot of the ecig pen kit package things with heavy pg juice. They realy are life savers, and why not have a big sign up saying" i can save your health and a grand a year", but may not whant to get too advanced with coil building and temp control for fear of putting early clients off. i know of anouther shop its moor like a bar, there is allways a croud hanging round being slowly drip fed, you can hardly see where your going through the vape haze, ive seen people come in for a replacement clearomiser, cartoniser, they dont have them, never stoked them. the whole vape thing is rapidly changing and so diverse, where ever anyone is in it you have to respect them for turning their backs on the killer pass time of smoking. i am not a political person but can say that if one single person is put off vaping through legislation and carries on smoking, the legislators have failed their fellow human being.

[VapingBad]

Each to their own, you can't know everyone's reasons and there is a, false IMO, perception of it being too technical or difficult and misleading advise like you need resistance lock.  In the end it is the same old same old in terms of difficulty, I started rebuilding by warping thin Kanthal around silica, then ribbon Kanthal, ss mesh & ss rope all before seeing my first micro-coil all had a degree of learning curve.  I think that in some cases people just copy thick micro-coils they did with Kanthal in Ni200, often they were pioneered by mech vapers and tuned for power from a single battery.  Personally I prefer coiling with Ni, rewicking micro-coils is the issue with Ni not coiling IMO and we forget that we didn't always put our wicks in after coiling and newer devices like the DNA200 can cope with lower starting resistances so we can use Ni200 that is easily to rewick even in dual coil now.  TBH for the last couple of years I have been vaping dual coil gennies and found it difficult to get thin enough Ni in the UK, I use either twisted 34 AWG (0.16 mm) or 0.5 mm x 0.01 ribbon.  l have always had some cotton tanks and drippers around and some of them just do not have a good enough electrical path and some have awful terminal that make temp limiting a lot more challenging than it needs to be.  Ti works very well if you really need that Kanthal feel.  And contrary to what many people advise I dry burn both at 600 F, just don't try and get then glowing orange.

The basics have always been the same contact-area vs power, wicking and airflow.  I sometimes hear people say they are not getting enough vapour, if they think about those principles a moment they probably have wicking and airflow sorted if they are experienced so try a bit more surface area to spread the heat.  You get more vapour from 10 wraps than from 8 at the same temperature, you may not have room in your atty so drop down a wire size, you would need even more wraps but you would get more vapour.  I have seen one smart person struggle for days until some one made a chance comment about those principles and they instantly realised it was lack of airflow, they haven't look back since.

Most of us have probably had a atty or two that took a lot of effort to get a vape we liked with Kanthal, but once we found the way it was simple going forward, temp limiting can be like that for some, others get real close on the first shot.

This post is too long and YMMV, but I would say to people having difficulty stick with it you should be able to get at least as good vape as you can with Kanthal if your atty is good enough.

[scooby]

Maybe a long post VB but wise and insightful words.

I struggled for weeks in the early days and was a "I don't like TC" person, (btw I still don't like the term TC) but the principals mentioned above finally hit me.
I changed some equipment, modified others and paid more attention to my builds and haven't vaped kanthal for over a year.
It wasn't difficult but it was different and it was frustrating, but I'm glad I stuck with it.

[Wing]

I love the concept of temp control, but I can never get a vape as warm and dense as I can with kanthal. And since I rarely have issues with dry hits, the one major advantage that TC brings is kind of moot. 

 

[blueridgedog]

TC has a learning curve.  My wife vapes TC, but I have to do the work.  I invested in TC so that I could make vaping safer (we are doing it as an alternative to smoking, not as a stand alone hobby).  Is it as easy and potentially flavorful as kanthal?  Not as easy, but potentially as flavorful.  

I could go on, but others have said it.  For me the real track is getting the chip, 510 and atomizer to all play well with TC.  We have the chip, we now have the 510, but we still need a reference atomizer that is perfect for TC.

[retird]

As blueridgedog said:

 I could go on, but others have said it.  For me the real track is getting the chip, 510 and atomizer to all play well with TC.  We have the chip, we now have the 510, but we still need a reference atomizer that is perfect for TC.

I would just add that to complete the journey of the perfect vape we also need e-liquid manufacturers to provide maximum safe vaping temperatures for their liquids along with full disclosure of the ingredients.

[craigdennis23]

That's what I kind of suspected was that it was an issue with getting it to work right. I will say though that my first experience with temp device was less than mind blowing. I've tried alot of the other devices out and haven't found any that work as well for me. All the others seem to take to long to get to temp if at all. I don't vape the same as I did with kanthal or nichrome so I suppose it's not fair to expect it to work spot on for everyone right away. I guess I just worked through it is all. To me the up to temp instantly and staying there is the best part and I've yet to get that with any other device. Also as you said each tank or dripper adds another challenge, for instance II've been using a 25mm vcmt rta and it's been alot more difficult to say the least. Lastly I hope I didn't come off as sounding condescending or the like. I'm always I guess shocked when I hear someone say they hated it or don't like it because it works so well for me now well for the most part. I suppose the now part is the key.

[randomposter]

hi, ive only been using temp control since black friday when i bought a reuleaux dna200.  i started with 30 gauge dual coils, in a velocity and a mutation x v2.  it was never fully satisfying.  then i discovered i would have to rebuild every time i rewick - that just doesn't work with my lifestyle.  when i went back to my fav kanthal builds i could tell that i liked the temp control, but not the tediousness of rebuilding and rewicking all the time, and i hadn't found a build that worked for me. so im currently experimenting with ni200 claptons, before i order some ss or ti.

basically, the learning curve is a bit of a pita when one has already gone through it with kanthal, and unless i can find a build that can handle a lot of airflow without being airy, im with @Wing, but mostly because rebuilding 30g dual coils every other day sucks.

[VapingBad]

I find twisted 0.25 mm duals work well, 10 wraps on 2.5 mm former around 0.05 ohm and not too soft to re-wick YMMV.

Or Ti 0.4 mm single strand, same size and wraps about 0.26 ohm.

(These are on Aromamizers in my case)

[craigdennis23]

I seem to have much better luck with ni205 as it seems alot stiffer. On the other hand I prefer ti in all honesty though. Anyone else use ni205, do you notice any different? Vapingbad, are you referring to the rdta? I've been looking for one local for ever though at this point I'd imagine a revision by the time I locate one close to home.

[VapingBad]

Yes, the RDTA tank.

[MikeTheVapeDude]

I feel a lot of it is ignorance to the subject and knowing how to properly use it, and experiences with horrible devices that don't have very responsive or accurate TC.

I used to hate TC when my only option was the SX350J and DNA40. The issue wasn't the experience, I understood full well how to operate and fine tune things, there just wasn't enough power, and NO variety, Nickel was the best there was. Then, when devices started to offer 100W/J+, and higher temperature ranges (I usually stay at 480-510F, I like my vape warm still, no 380F for me) I could get what I wanted. Then the DNA200D offered a wide variety of wire and curve options, power, and then I never looked back to regular Kanthal again.

So either people have no idea what they're doing and need someone to properly teach them how so they can enjoy it, or their only experience with it is through a bad device.

That being said, there is a third group, people who just genuinely don't like it. To each their own, I personally don't understand it, but hey, it's not smoke they're inhaling.

[black lace]

your absolutely right but also the only look that a lot of people get is through buying ready made ready wicked coils,  if theyr anything like the rubbish samples I've had, they'r knackered before they even start, so TC wouldn't get a faire chance. 
says me sitting here dripping into a twin parallel wooden mech mod with twin kenthal tigers (early lunch punch, nicotine fix, not adv)

[LarryD]

I would ad that many new vapers are not going to get a satisfactory experience with out a learning curve, and  other just aren't illing to put forth the effort to try to get it right. They want a prebuilt coil head they pop in and just vape. I have found I love 317L ss weather it is in tc on a dna200 or  with vw on my older boxes that don't have tc for anything but Ni200. I don't like a hot vape so dont find a great difference in taste, I love the the dna as i can setup the tcr curve and even play with the standard csv to use the the preheat to get up to a satisfying temp almost instantly and not experience as hot a vape as i do in vw.
.

[bobjohnson]

Temp control just isnt hot enough for me. Even at 300 degrees its too cool a vape. I used to really enjoy temp control maybe... a year ago? But I was using it to mainly avoid dry hitting. Now there are so many good rebuildable tanks that dryhitting is not a real problem anymore. And since temp control is not hot enough to be satisfying, I have gone back to kanthal.

[Celtic]

I've seen a lot of chatter lately about temp control not being hot enough. I would gladly share my tanks with you and ask you to say they're not hot enough. I use strictly 22 gauge Ti1, dual 6.5 wraps at 2.5mm ID. At 510F and 75 watts it's as hot as I can stand it. So personally I don't understand how someone would want a hotter vape. But then again I don't know what other people are building. I see a lot of talk about SS and Ni wire, but since I don't use that I can't relate. And then I see a lot of people talking about 28 and 26 gauge Titanium and I think that maybe the warmth isn't there, but no doubt the clouds are missing too. If you haven't tried the dual 22 Ti wire I would recommend it before selling your DNA mods or giving up on temp control. 

Also I keep reading where the DNA200 is like the only mod out there that does temp control well. That's simply not true. Sure it's the best, but there are other good TC mods that work great. It's all a matter of understanding the mod's abilities and limitations and whatever little quirky things there is about them. The SMOK Xcube will never be a good TC mod, but P4Y has some good ones as well as Joyetech. 

[black lace]

Yes your right there chap, my dna 40s work realy well with rta's and some others..

[sotirisba1]

Do you think I can't get hot enough vape with this fused clapton Ti coils? And it works perfect on tc.

 

[DjMadness]

Do you think I can't get hot enough vape with this fused clapton Ti coils? And it works perfect on tc.

which guage TI are you using ? and what are you using for your wrap ?

[sotirisba1]

 Two 26g claptoned with 32g Ti grade1. 3mm inner diam. I pulse them at low watts in a dark room to check for hot spots and make them warm evenly. Once you make it work you get a grate vape

[digatel]

I have found that the only wire I care to use TC with is Titanium and Stainless Steel. I have tried time and time again to like Ni200, mainly because I have 100ft rolls in both 28 & 26, but I just don't care for it at all. I thought it was something I was doing wrong, but I've come to the conclusion that it is just a waist of time for me, because I always end up ripping the coils out and replacing them after a couple of hours. However, I understand that there are many people who enjoy it and have sworn that it's the most flavorful vape they've ever had. So, for the sake of adding to this thread, it all comes down to personal preference, which is why our community is so awesome. If everyone Vaped the same, there would be no innovation, Vaping would be boring and we wouldn't be where we are today...It's a beautiful thing. As long as we respect each other and keep in mind the real reason we do what we do, then it doesn't matter.

[antyac2108]

I use NI200 Tempered and get a great vape and i used to be the same way about it. I couldn't get what i wanted til i started to use these NI200 Claptons. They are 26ga NI200 tempered with 32ga NI200 annealed wrapped. and I love them. It's all about figuring what you like. 

[digatel]

antyac2108 said:

I use NI200 Tempered and get a great vape and i used to be the same way about it. I couldn't get what i wanted til i started to use these NI200 Claptons. They are 26ga NI200 tempered with 32ga NI200 annealed wrapped. and I love them. It's all about figuring what you like. 

To be honest, I have not tried those yet, but I have some friends who have and say the same thing. I would definitely give them a try.