SS316L Temp control help.

[Damob9k]

Hello all,

I'm new to DNA's but have been using TC on my now superseded IPV4s and Cuboid 150, using Titanium.
But I thought i'd give SS a go seems as I had read that it's easier to use, so I bought a reel of 316L .50 (24awg) from StealthVape.
I also bought a UD coil jig a few weeks ago, but couldn't use it with the twisted titanium wire I was making as it is too springy ! so thought - lets give SS + jig a go
Have to say, they're the best looking coils i've ever made  2.5mm 7 wraps coming out at 0.18 (so says my Therion)

Anyway .. I can't get it to work ! I have downloaded the Steam Engine csv for 316L and also 2 or 3 from here, but when i fire it off, it says OFF on the screen, also (when I can get it to work) the device monitor is showing nothing on the "Temp" reading ?

All of the settings are correct as far as i know, and it was working fine on the atty (Snapdragon) before, so all i've really changed is the physical coil build and changed the coil material in EScribe.

As i'm new to SS builds, is there something really basic i'm missing here ?
I've looked around on these forums and the wider internet but can't see anything really specific about setting up SS coils.
Any help and advice greatly received  

Many thanks

Damian


To add: I just switched the profile to my Goblin one, which is Titanium, and it works correctly, so it seems to be specifically the SS profile that is not working in temp mode.

[Wayneo]

1. Was your coil description accurate? Dual coils I presume?
2. Did you remember to upload (the material and profile settings) to your mod?

If that's 3 "yes's", can you post a printscreen of your profile and device monitor while firing. Ensure you have the following 'checked'.

 

[Damob9k]

Hi Wayneo,

Sorry , yes it's dual coil.
And yes to the other questions.

I tried it again this morning before going to work, switched the profile on the Mod to my Snapdragon prof, now it's doing something different .. when I fire it, it's now saying Temperature Protected, even if I put the temp up to max 300c ?
Also I noticed that the resistance has gone up to 0.25ohms.

I don't have the snapdragon with me now as I only use it when at home.
I'll do a screen capture on Device Monitor tonight.
Cheers
Damian

 
BTW I'm having issues with the Device Monitor, as you may have spotted in my other post, ChuckyButt200 is currently doing His/her ? best to help me with that, so it may be a bit tricky to give you the necessary data but i'll give it a go !

[giz_60]

Being that SS material is a finicky critter in TC, it is imperative that your device is set up properly for it to function correctly, so you might want to post a screenshot of you 'Mod' tab as well as the settings for the SS profile you are using.

[Damob9k]

Here ya go giz_60 & Wayneo

 
 
 
I've tried all 4 SS material versions I have, all do the same.

Just looking for another USB cable to try, once found I'll try to do a dump of the monitor.
Cheers
Damian

[giz_60]

Try raising your preheat power, preheat punch & time limit...I usually max out the power & punch for 3 secs...then let the board do its magic...

Edit: and also raise the power in Settings...the board will throttle back the watts when temp is reached...

[retird]

I've been following this thread and was just looking at your last screenshots the "Thermal Settings" are default Evolv board settings.  You  might consider running the Case Analyzer as it seems the device thermal settings were not tailored to the device but the default settings were left unchanged.

@giz_60, I think, posted this .ecig file for the Therion 166 in another thread.. it shows the Evolv default thermals also....

Therion166.ecig

[Damob9k]

Thanks giz_60 & retird,

I actually lowered the pre-heat based on some other comments on SS coils, it was on about 25 beforehand.
I have already upped the watts after that screenshot, no effect, i'll up it more.

I did try to run the case analyser at work a few days ago, but it took ages and I needed a puff so i stopped it !!  I will get a spare mod working and give this a go - thanks for the advise on that.

BTW what is an "ideal" resistance target for SS316L ? I read .50ohms, but that seems high ?

Cheers
Damian

[Damob9k]

OK so done some more testing ..

Did a single coil build on my Merlin .. 2.5mm id 7 wraps .50 SS316L came out at .27 ohms.
Used the same profile as the Snapdragon, and TC works correctly.
Reduced the temp down to 170c - barely any production, upped it to 222c and it's producing just what I want.
So .. is it my Snappy .. I don't think so as it was working well with titanium.
The only thing that's really changes is the resistance .27 rather that .19 .. would that really make this much of a difference ?
I'll build a dual 9 wraps that should come out at .2 ish - see what that does 

Onwards and downwards !

[retird]

hum.....   222c (431F) for a .27 ohm coil....

I use pre-made Notch coils (SS) that are 0.23 ohm and I get a great vape at 420 F so what you are getting  at 222c sounds reasonable.

A proper setting of the thermals of the device makes the temp setting more accurate... that's why I mentioned Case Analyzer.... 

[Wayneo]

Damob9k said:

... The only thing that's really changes is the resistance .27 rather that .19 .. would that really make this much of a difference ? 

Nope, and a lower ohm might suit you better deprnding on your power/heat requirements due to the 6v limitation.

I believe 3 other factors enabled your success. You used a different atty. You created a single coil build, and you raised up your power levels.

I think both giz_60 and I leave our settings 'high' to accomodate any build and let the board do its job. Others like to fine tune down to have a bit of headroom over what the coil actually requires in case of careless mistakes. You can pick your poison. 

[giz_60]

Wayneo said:

I think both giz_60 and I leave our settings 'high' to accomodate any build and let the board do its job. Others like to fine tune down to have a bit of headroom over what the coil actually requires in case of careless mistakes. You can pick your poison. 

Exactly....IMHO, the important thing is get the coil up to temp ASAP & then let the board take over. If you are running at a lower power & it's not enough to reach temp, you are limiting the board...kinda like a governor on an engine...getting all the settings correct...mod res, case thermal etc... will help it to operate properly, especially with SS...finicky critter...

[Damob9k]

OK thanks agian guys,

I've now done the case analyser and got some device specific settings in there.

going to do a few different types of build tomorrow and raise the power up as suggested.

won't do it now got blurry eye syndrome (may be cause by a bottle of wine !! )

Still getting the Check Battery msg at the mo, but will see what happens when i limit the charge rate and with different builds.

Cheers all

Damian

[Damob9k]

Right ... been a busy bunny..

Built a dual coil build exactly the same as the Snapdragon but for the dual coil deck of my Merlin - 2.5id .50 7 wraps SS316L
Switched to Merlin profile - no TC - kept saying "OFF" on screen.
But I noticed that it wasn't displaying "Merl" where the profile name should be (on the mod)
So switched to the Snapdragon profile, which is in effect exactly the same, and TC is working, and displaying "Snap" on screen.
So seemed as if the Merlin profile was corrupt or something.

So I saved all the profile settings and did a re-install of the service pack.
Re-did the materials list, and added back my 3 atty profiles.

And it all seemed to be working correctly !

First thing I noticed is that after having a puff, the mod is flashing up "Temperature Protected" never seen that before !! 

After vaping it for an hour or so, I decided to test it properly, so I removed the Merlin, switched the profile to the Goblin profile and gave it a go ... all working fine ..
Removed the Goblin, switched profile back to the Merlin ... nope, back to "OFF" and not showing "Merl" on screen !
Pulled a battery, left it for a minute, re-inserted said battery, and then the profile name is displayed ?

Vaped it, and immediately noticed that the vapour output was a lot more "powerful" at the same temp.
To get it back to the same output, I had to reduce the temp down to 127c from 170c 

So apart from all of the other oddities, it seems that the TC is all over the place !

I don't mind too much having to re-adjust the temp, but I'm guessing this shouldn't be happening ?

On a positive note, since doing the service pack re-flash, I no longer get the "Battery Check" message when connected to my PC and using the Device Monitor" !
So there must have been something a bit fubar with the factory firmware ?

Anyway .. I'm 80% happier now, and as I only swap atties twice a day (work\home) I can live with these little quirks.

Thanks to all for your suggestions and help, I can't make my mind up if I need to raise this with Lost Vape or not ? what's your thoughts ?

Many thanks

Damian


Update: Arrrgh !! left it alone for 20mins, went to vape it .. nothing coming out, had to put the temp up to 222c !! what the flock is going on with this SS I'm not getting this with titanium !

[Spector NS5 RD]

glad it's working good for you. the reason the vape was weak when you came back to it after letting the device sit idle for 20 min is something Evolv calls refinement. the base res will constantly be polled when idle to see if can be lowered or "refined". this makes TC more accurate. just up your temp to heat you were used to before refinement happened. this is normal operation.

[Wayneo]

Damob9k said:

... Removed the Goblin, switched profile back to the Merlin ... nope, back to "OFF" and not showing "Merl" on screen ! 

Go to your Goblin profile, save that profile, go to your Merlin profile, choose 'load' and select your known Goblin profile. Rename profile text display's back to Merl or whatever

Damob9k said:

 ... it seems that the TC is all over the place !

Whole lotsa PEBMAU. For TC to work properly, both the mod and the atty need to start at the current room temperature. Ya can't just willy nilly swap 'em out. Yes for Power/watts but not TC

Excellent descriptions that you provide allow for quick(er) diagnosis. 

[Damob9k]

Ahh I see .. I was starting to think that my mod was trying to make me cut back on nicotine !! 

[Damob9k]

Thanks Wayneo, I'll give the profile copy thing a go next time I see the issue.

Sorry ! what's PEBMAU mean ? I feel I should know but it's got me confuddled !

For TC to work properly, both the mod and the atty need to start at the current room temperature. Ya can't just willy nilly swap 'em out. Yes for Power/watts but not TC

I'll bear that in mind, will try to allow both to settle down for a while.

Thanks for the appreciation of detail ... I work in IT so fully understand that the devil's in the detail !!   If only I got a £ for every call saying "the thingy isn't working .. there was an error message but I didn't read it - i'm going for lunch now, can you fix it before I get back " !! 

Cheers

Damian

[Wayneo]

Damob9k said:

... Sorry ! what's PEBMAU mean ? I feel I should know but it's got me confuddled !  ....  I work in IT so fully understand that the devil's in the detail !! 

Damian, my feeble attempt at some old time IT humor. In the old days it was PEBKAC, so to keep it current and relevant, I've now invented (Problem exists between mod and user). 

[Damob9k]

ha ha got it !! knew that I should know it  we tend to use PICNIC .. Problem in Chair; Not in Computer !
And other less PC terms 

[SteveF]

Damob9k said:

Right ... been a busy bunny..

Built a dual coil build exactly the same as the Snapdragon but for the dual coil deck of my Merlin - 2.5id .50 7 wraps SS316L
Switched to Merlin profile - no TC - kept saying "OFF" on screen.
But I noticed that it wasn't displaying "Merl" where the profile name should be (on the mod)
So switched to the Snapdragon profile, which is in effect exactly the same, and TC is working, and displaying "Snap" on screen.
So seemed as if the Merlin profile was corrupt or something.

So I saved all the profile settings and did a re-install of the service pack.
Re-did the materials list, and added back my 3 atty profiles.

And it all seemed to be working correctly !

First thing I noticed is that after having a puff, the mod is flashing up "Temperature Protected" never seen that before !! 

After vaping it for an hour or so, I decided to test it properly, so I removed the Merlin, switched the profile to the Goblin profile and gave it a go ... all working fine ..
Removed the Goblin, switched profile back to the Merlin ... nope, back to "OFF" and not showing "Merl" on screen !
Pulled a battery, left it for a minute, re-inserted said battery, and then the profile name is displayed ?

Vaped it, and immediately noticed that the vapour output was a lot more "powerful" at the same temp.
To get it back to the same output, I had to reduce the temp down to 127c from 170c 

So apart from all of the other oddities, it seems that the TC is all over the place !

I don't mind too much having to re-adjust the temp, but I'm guessing this shouldn't be happening ?

On a positive note, since doing the service pack re-flash, I no longer get the "Battery Check" message when connected to my PC and using the Device Monitor" !
So there must have been something a bit fubar with the factory firmware ?

Anyway .. I'm 80% happier now, and as I only swap atties twice a day (work\home) I can live with these little quirks.

Thanks to all for your suggestions and help, I can't make my mind up if I need to raise this with Lost Vape or not ? what's your thoughts ?

Many thanks

Damian


Update: Arrrgh !! left it alone for 20mins, went to vape it .. nothing coming out, had to put the temp up to 222c !! what the flock is going on with this SS I'm not getting this with titanium !

hi, didn't the snapdragon have a base/ 510 spring issue with TC or am I thinking of a different atomiser? the constant over heating/ under heating is a resistance fluctuation, either a loose screw, the 510 or the coil shorting between wraps. It could have been warm when you swapped meaning that the mod took the warm resistance as "base' and had to overpower to reach the calculated limit , then when it was cool it was running true and only heating to 120c. TBH I don't mess with profiles swapping between atomisers , I don't use preheat either . The SP updates have smoothed out power delivery enough to set a power, a temperature and let the board regulate itself.

[Damob9k]

Hi SteveF,

I've not seen any mention regarding the Snapdragon and TC, but there were a lot of people having issues with the v1 as it had a reverse threaded base that was a PITA, mines the v1.5 which has a redesigned base with 2 screws holding it together.

But, I've been doing my testing on my Merlin mini as it's way easier to recoil, and has two decks, one for single coils and one for dual.

Yeah I also have not been using the pre-heat feature, have found that it didn't make it better or worse so don't use it now.

I think my last issue with the heat fluctuation was due to it being a fresh build and it hadn't settled down, as per Wayneo's and ChunkyButt200's comments.

Fired it up the morning and it seems to working perfectly, so I think I've cracked it !

Thanks for your comments too. 
Cheers
Damian

[SteveF]

great news, it can be a pita getting everything to work all at once. I knew that there was a problem with one of the high end atomisers but couldn't for the life of me remember which one. I've been using SS316 since the SP series of updates,before that SS was terrible, just a huge spike Now it seems to take a little while for the coil to settle possibly only 0.01 in it but enough to make 40-50 degrees C difference. And then like the atomiser I'm using now, it reads 0.16-0.17 probably goes from 0.165 to 0.171 on escribe cold and that can vary 10-15C from day to day. Actually its reading 0.18, must need rewicking?