Replay on 75c

[awsum140]

I think the bottom line is that replay is more of a refined TC method.  It won't work unless a TC capable wire is used and it measures the resistance.  By inference, that resistance translates to a specific temperature.

[nagaraka]

I doubt that in Replay mode and TC you get the same behaviour you would get with TC by itself. With TC you set a T limit and perhaps a preheat. When you draw a puff, first prehat will be applied for the time set, unless the coil reaches the T limit earlier than this; then chosen power will be maintained, except if the coil resistivity rises to the limit. In which case the chip will try to keep that limit. 

In Replay you choose to play a puff which might have started at a given resistivity and ended at a certain level above that. The chip would then strive to replicate that. But when you draw next puff you may have your coil cooler or hotter than your previous starting point. That's why I always get the impression that the initial boost is different from one draw to the next. You can check out on the Device Monitor: the Power applied varies quite frantically, whilst the chip is trying to replicate the various values of resistivity at a given time of the puff.

That behaviour will never happen in regular TC mode, where the power applied will always be the same, unless the coil reaches its T limit.

[ruckus]

My experience with replay has been pretty positive so far, definitely feel's like I'm getting more flavor.

As other have mentioned tho I've noticed the power bounces around quite aggressively, it has been interesting to watch.. pretty cool watching the board adapt to each puff.

I've vaped my cotton pretty dam dry, does seem to be protecting against charring which is pretty dam impressive considering there is no set temp limit.

I'm planning on building a 250C sometime this week, I'm excited to see the comparison between the two boards..

[mactavish]

11 hours ago, nagaraka said:

I doubt that in Replay mode and TC you get the same behaviour you would get with TC by itself. With TC you set a T limit and perhaps a preheat. When you draw a puff, first prehat will be applied for the time set, unless the coil reaches the T limit earlier than this; then chosen power will be maintained, except if the coil resistivity rises to the limit. In which case the chip will try to keep that limit. 

In Replay you choose to play a puff which might have started at a given resistivity and ended at a certain level above that. The chip would then strive to replicate that. But when you draw next puff you may have your coil cooler or hotter than your previous starting point. That's why I always get the impression that the initial boost is different from one draw to the next. You can check out on the Device Monitor: the Power applied varies quite frantically, whilst the chip is trying to replicate the various values of resistivity at a given time of the puff.

That behaviour will never happen in regular TC mode, where the power applied will always be the same, unless the coil reaches its T limit.

Interesting theory. I’ve been using TC for a long time now, it was never that challenging for me, but I can understand that many VW vapers may have been put off by some of the extra learning curve. 

I’m still playing with REPLAY, as a wattage profile as recommended, but also using REPLAY in my stainless steel TC profile. I have not noticed any flavor differences. It may be my current wicking, but so far Replay seems “choppy”, getting more spits and pops, but Replay in TC mode is “smooth”. Perhaps it’s just the wick. Trouble going back and forth, is even if the ohms are locked in TC mode, something I never do normally, when I switch to wattage Replay, I’m asked to confirm ohms, sometimes I can say NO, it’s the same, and other times I have to let it reread the atty, but since it’s hot, I have to wait till it cools. None of that is a big deal as I’m only in test mode, wouldn’t normally be switching back and forth. 

While I see some of the advantages of Replay for many, for experienced TC vapers it’s fun to play with. I’m going to keep using Replay in TC mode, and there is a small advantage doing it over watt replay, if you like to check your last puff graph, you get the temperature red line on the graph, you only get the power watts green line in Watts Replay, at least in the theme I’m using, which I believe is set up correctly in this regard. 

[ruckus]

42 minutes ago, mactavish said:

Interesting theory. I’ve been using TC for a long time now, it was never that challenging for me, but I can understand that many VW vapers may have been put off by some of the extra learning curve. 

I’m still playing with REPLAY, as a wattage profile as recommended, but also using REPLAY in my stainless steel TC profile. I have not noticed any flavor differences. It may be my current wicking, but so far Replay seems “choppy”, getting more spits and pops, but Replay in TC mode is “smooth”. Perhaps it’s just the wick. Trouble going back and forth, is even if the ohms are locked in TC mode, something I never do normally, when I switch to wattage Replay, I’m asked to confirm ohms, sometimes I can say NO, it’s the same, and other times I have to let it reread the atty, but since it’s hot, I have to wait till it cools. None of that is a big deal as I’m only in test mode, wouldn’t normally be switching back and forth. 

While I see some of the advantages of Replay for many, for experienced TC vapers it’s fun to play with. I’m going to keep using Replay in TC mode, and there is a small advantage doing it over watt replay, if you like to check your last puff graph, you get the temperature red line on the graph, you only get the power watts green line in Watts Replay, at least in the theme I’m using, which I believe is set up correctly in this regard. 

I think we need to shift our way of thinking when using replay on temp control profile.. I know I personally did.

Rather then using temp protection and focusing on limiting a specific temp we should hand the reigns over to replay, we still get the benefit of additional temp stats in our monitoring however replay is determining the appropriate temp in the given situation.. I am curious tho, do TCR's and wire type play a role with replay ?

When replay initially came out this is what confused me the most, what's the advantage of replay in temp control if I have a set specific temperature limit? What am I gaining exactly? I realized I was using replay wrong.. after discovering replay itself prevents cotton charring this really opened my eyes to the simplicity.

I'm planning on modifying my personal theme to no longer be so focused around temp as a means of adjusting the vape experience while replay is active on a profile.. because simply put it no longer is.

Edited May 2, 2018 by ruckus

[hawk256]

One of the big differences I am noticing between Replay and TC is that I like to take a long drag and have the heat go up until the end of the drag. I never could recreate that same experience with TC. It was "locked in" to a certain temperature. I could only get that experience in regular wattage mode but the heat increase was not very consistent and would change by how wet the wicks were. In Repay mode, I get the same drag every time. I'm amazed at how well it works. The flavor itself is not necessarily better than in wattage mode but it's not worse (like in TC). It is very consistent and will not dry hit. Kudos to Evolv.

[mactavish]

1 hour ago, ruckus said:

I think we need to shift our way of thinking when using replay on temp control profile.. I know I personally did.

Rather then using temp protection and focusing on limiting a specific temp we should hand the reigns over to replay, we still get the benefit of additional temp stats in our monitoring however replay is determining the appropriate temp in the given situation.. I am curious tho, do TCR's and wire type play a role with replay ?

When replay initially came out this is what confused me the most, what's the advantage of replay in temp control if I have a set specific temperature limit? What am I gaining exactly? I realized I was using replay wrong.. after discovering replay itself prevents cotton charring this really opened my eyes to the simplicity.

I'm planning on modifying my personal theme to no longer be so focused around temp as a means of adjusting the vape experience while replay is active on a profile.. because simply put it no longer is.

Your message confuses me.  If you are using TC with Replay, how are you not setting a temp and “handing the reigns over to Replay”?

Or have you switched over to Replay in a Watts power mode? You say you were using Replay “wrong”, how are you using it now? Thanks!

[ruckus]

1 minute ago, mactavish said:

Your message confuses me.  If you are using TC with Replay, how are you not setting a temp and “handing the reigns over to Replay”?

Or have you switched over to Replay in a Watts power mode? You say you were using Replay “wrong”, how are you using it now? Thanks!

Well if you disable temp protection, the temp you have set is irrelevant.. the specified temp is only considered if temp protection is active.

Now your SS316 profile all of a sudden is behaving very similar to wattage mode while temp protection is disabled, however with the addition of TCR/temp feedback.

If you activate replay mode while temp protection is disabled, replay can now begin governing power delivery without temp control interrupting and getting in the way.

[mactavish]

10 minutes ago, ruckus said:

Well if you disable temp protection, the temp you have set is irrelevant.. the specified temp is only considered if temp protection is active.

Now your SS316 profile all of a sudden is behaving very similar to wattage mode while temp protection is disabled, however with the addition of TCR/temp feedback.

If you activate replay mode while temp protection is disabled, replay can now begin governing power delivery without temp control interrupting and getting in the way.

Interesting, the only time I ever turned off TP, this before REPLAY came out, I was while searching for a Theme that might have the OLD “temp protected” message you used to see on DNA chips. So I saw a on/off switch in this theme, turned TP “OFF” to see what would happen, and boy was I shocked, Temp went super hot and choked me. Then I wrote Evolv, as to what that setting was for, and was told it was sometimes used by a few when they were working with their mods in Escribe, and had nothing to do with the old TP message, which unlike most, I liked. I asked how I could edit a theme to get that message option back, and was told it’s not even in the firmware anymore, so I guess it was really hated. 

Seems you found a good use for the on/off TP option, guess it’s worth experimenting with. Thanks for the explanation. 

[ruckus]

22 minutes ago, mactavish said:

Interesting, the only time I ever turned off TP, this before REPLAY came out, I was while searching for a Theme that might have the OLD “temp protected” message you used to see on DNA chips. So I saw a on/off switch in this theme, turned TP “OFF” to see what would happen, and boy was I shocked, Temp went super hot and choked me. Then I wrote Evolv, as to what that setting was for, and was told it was sometimes used by a few when they were working with their mods in Escribe, and had nothing to do with the old TP message, which unlike most, I liked. I asked how I could edit a theme to get that message option back, and was told it’s not even in the firmware anymore, so I guess it was really hated. 

Seems you found a good use for the on/off TP option, guess it’s worth experimenting with. Thanks for the explanation. 

I believe you can still get the temp protection message in the DNA75C, I recall seeing something in the theme editor.. I'll have to check when I'm home from work.

Depending on the coils you were using at the time, firing a temp control coil with no temp protection would definitely give you a super hot vape hahahaha.

I wanted to add the method I mentioned above (disabling temp protection) should only be used with coils safe to fire in wattage mode (stainless steel coils), otherwise as you mentioned it's going to be a wicked hot vape while using any other temp control wire.. at the very least ramp that wattage right down and work your way up.

Edited May 2, 2018 by ruckus

[ndb]

On 5/1/2018 at 1:30 AM, nagaraka said:

I'm not really saying at all that Evolv shouldn't allow TC in Replay mode! I would only be glad if someone explained the difference between Replay in Watts and Replay in TC. As far as we know Replay works only with a temperature sensing material and not with Kanthal or Nichrome. Replay it is still doing TC, but in a different fashion. If we select a Watts profile that involves the chip does not know what kind of coil we threw on it; but, on the other hand, if we choose a material it does know its characteristics. Based on this I suppose, but I may be wrong, that Replay behaves differently between Watts and TC. In all the videos I've seen, I always remember that Watts was selected to work with Replay. So it was a kind of wonder when I saw that Escribe would let you select a material and not forcing Watts with Replay.

I had this doubt initially as well. I'll try to explain what I think it's happening under the hood, but that's just my interpretation so @James please correct me if I'm wrong:

1) Replay in Watts: your taste is in charge: whatever you feel is a "good puff" (let's call it the "master" puff) gets memorized in terms of resistance-over-time and reproduced. If you have very bad taste buds and don't feel a hit is dry, you'll burn cotton when replaying your puff

2) Replay in TC: TC is in charge: your puff will follow the rules of TC, and so if you set a proper temperature, even if your taste is crap, since the "master" puff was temperature controlled, you will never exceed that temperature while replaying.

The example of the bad taste buds not feeling dry hits is admittedly a bit extreme, but here's a more realistic reason I'd think about for using replay with TC: 

You might be exceeding "temperature considered safe" even if by taste you don't perceive any hint of dry hit.

I won't enter into the merit of it, but if it's true that the emission of nasty chemicals could exponentially grow after coil temperature exceeds X deegrees, and at this X degrees you don't feel any dry hit and your cotton doesn't burn, then recording the "master" puff in watts only won't protect you from the potential danger. You might be enjoying thousands of replayed puffs at X + 50 degrees, without feeling anything wrong.

If you record your "master" puff with TC, and set your temperature below X, you should be guaranteed that no matter what your taste says, you won't risk producing nasty chemicals in any of the replayed puffs.

Hope I could explain what I have in mind, but please remember again this is just my interpretation...

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by ndb
Misspelled mention

[iambyrdman]

On 4/29/2018 at 2:49 PM, James said:

I've posted it on Early Firmware:

 

Sweet!

Replay working on my 75C!  Love it as much or more than on the 250C

[mactavish]

18 hours ago, ruckus said:

Well if you disable temp protection, the temp you have set is irrelevant.. the specified temp is only considered if temp protection is active.

Now your SS316 profile all of a sudden is behaving very similar to wattage mode while temp protection is disabled, however with the addition of TCR/temp feedback.

If you activate replay mode while temp protection is disabled, replay can now begin governing power delivery without temp control interrupting and getting in the way.

Tried this as an experiment. Using a SS TC profile, with REPLAY ON. My SET TEMP = 465F, (in the theme I’m using, I can set the Watts for TC in “settings” = 40w). Vape is good, Replay works. Same coil, REPLAY now in WATTS mode, SET to 25 watts, works the same. 

Now, turn TEMP PROTECT = OFF. Back to original “SS TC profile, with REPLAY ON. My SET TEMP = 465F”, vape is TOO HOT. Back into settings, to reduce wattage to 25 watts, now vapes similar to the other tests above. 

I think doing TC with REPLAY with TP = OFF, while possible, is just adding more complexity to an already complex formula. I don’t see any plus differences in my vape, while adding more settings to go through. While Evolv could clarify this, I doubt they will comment. Their current stance is REPLAY was designed for wattage mode, with a TC compatible coil, and can work with a temperature control profile, again with the correct TC coils. I’m sure there are odd variations of these combinations, but they should be deemed “user experiment”, like I just did. But hey, if it’s working the way you like, then that’s the bottom line. After my quick experiment, I’ll stick with the two most common implementations of REPLAY in TC and WATTS. 

[ruckus]

6 minutes ago, mactavish said:

Tried this as an experiment. Using a SS TC profile, with REPLAY ON. My SET TEMP = 465F, (in the theme I’m using, I can set the Watts for TC in “settings” = 40w). Vape is good, Replay works. Same coil, REPLAY now in WATTS mode, SET to 25 watts, works the same. 

Now, turn TEMP PROTECT = OFF. Back to original “SS TC profile, with REPLAY ON. My SET TEMP = 465F”, vape is TOO HOT. Back into settings, to reduce wattage to 25 watts, now vapes similar to the other tests above. 

I think doing TC with REPLAY with TP = OFF, while possible, is just adding more complexity to an already complex formula. I don’t see any plus differences in my vape, while adding more settings to go through. While Evolv could clarify this, I doubt they will comment. Their current stance is REPLAY was designed for wattage mode, with a TC compatible coil, and can work with a temperature control profile, again with the correct TC coils. I’m sure there are odd variations of these combinations, but they should be deemed “user experiment”, like I just did. But hey, if it’s working the way you like, then that’s the bottom line. After my quick experiment, I’ll stick with the two most common implementations of REPLAY in TC and WATTS. 

Sorry that makes no sense to me to be honest... if you disable temp protection/temp in escribe your pretty much in WATTS mode.. "temp protection" is what the setting is referred to on the device / "temperature" is what that exact same setting is referred to on escribe.

I think what your experiencing is a placebo effect... because by disabling temperature in escribe you've literally setup a duplicate/new "wattage" mode - the only difference is you have selected a wire material so the board can measure temp.

Compare the "wattage" or "watts" profile on escribe to your SS316 while temp protection is disabled and it will all make sense.

Edited May 2, 2018 by ruckus

[mactavish]

1 minute ago, ruckus said:

Sorry that makes no sense to me to be honest... if you disable temp protection/temp in escribe your pretty much are in WATTS mode.. "temp protection" is what the setting is referred to on the device / "temperature" is what that exact same setting is referred to on escribe.

I think what your experiencing is a placebo effect... because by disabling temperature in escribe your literally have setup a duplicate wattage mode - the only difference is you have selected a wire material so the board can measure temp.

I don’t have to be in Escribe to turn TP = OFF. That setting is available in the theme I’m using. I’m just trying to duplicate your theory that one can use REPLAY in a TC profile, but with TP = OFF, if that’s NOT your theory, I’m sorry, and don’t understand what you are doing. For me to go any further, please tell me exactly what modes and settings you are using and then I’ll try and duplicate it. 

[ruckus]

11 minutes ago, mactavish said:

I don’t have to be in Escribe to turn TP = OFF. That setting is available in the theme I’m using. I’m just trying to duplicate your theory that one can use REPLAY in a TC profile, but with TP = OFF, if that’s NOT your theory, I’m sorry, and don’t understand what you are doing. For me to go any further, please tell me exactly what modes and settings you are using and then I’ll try and duplicate it. 

That's right.. in themes we refer to the setting as "temp protection" in escribe the exact same setting is referred to as "temprature".

What makes the wattage profile a wattage profile is disabling this option.. so by you saying your getting difference experiences while this option is disabled on what you consider your temp control profile compared to your wattage profile makes no sense because by disabling "temp protection" your turning your temp control profile into a wattage profile.

Hopefully that makes sense... if your still confused - plug your device into escribe so you can compare both your profiles in real time and you'll see exactly what I'm saying... turn off "temp protect" on your device and plug your device in.. then disconnect your device turn on "temp protect" and plug your device back in and re-download the settings"..

Edited May 2, 2018 by ruckus

[mactavish]

2 minutes ago, ruckus said:

That's right.. in themes we refer to the setting as "temp protection" in escribe the exact same setting is referred to as "temprature".

What makes the wattage profile a wattage profile is disabling this option.. so by you saying your getting difference experiences while this option is disabled on what you consider your temp control profile compared to your wattage profile makes no sense because by disabling "temp protection" your turning your temp control profile into a wattage profile.

Hopefully that makes sense... if your still confused - plug your device into escribe so you can compare both your profiles in real time and you'll see exactly what I'm saying... turn off "temp protect" on your device and plug your device in.

I’m only confused in your earlier post where you said: “If you activate replay mode while temp protection is disabled, replay can now begin governing power delivery without temp control interrupting and getting in the way.” I now assume you are talking about profiles, and not trying to turn OFF TP in the mod, which is possible, and a bit unpredictable. So we are back to the beginning. Two ways to use REPLAY, in WATTS mode, with TP OFF, in the Escribe profile which should be obvious to most. And REPLAY with a TC profile where you set the temperature, and let Replay do the computing. 

I guess I misunderstood your earlier post, that you were using a 3rd technique. The confusion is how we are using the term TP. 

[JRH78]

On my 75c replay is a clear box. When it fires nothing comes up. Any help??? Thanks 

[ruckus]

43 minutes ago, mactavish said:

I’m only confused in your earlier post where you said: “If you activate replay mode while temp protection is disabled, replay can now begin governing power delivery without temp control interrupting and getting in the way.” I now assume you are talking about profiles, and not trying to turn OFF TP in the mod, which is possible, and a bit unpredictable. So we are back to the beginning. Two ways to use REPLAY, in WATTS mode, with TP OFF, in the Escribe profile which should be obvious to most. And REPLAY with a TC profile where you set the temperature, and let Replay do the computing. 

I guess I misunderstood your earlier post, that you were using a 3rd technique. The confusion is how we are using the term TP. 

"3rd technique" is simply using replay with a coil material selected so the board can monitor temp.

Using temp control & replay at the same time defeats the purpose in my opinion.. one you set by taste the other by temp - they essentially do the same thing by trying to meet conditions set by you.

If your using replay WITH temp control active, replay is going to try replicate your saved puff - temp control is going to kick in and limit it. Replay adapts, temp control is strict.

You mentioned if you disable temp control on your temp profile it's super hot vape - most likely active preheat/boost settings applied on that profile come to think of it.

Edited May 2, 2018 by ruckus

[mactavish]

1 minute ago, ruckus said:

"3rd technique" is simply using replay with a coil material selected so the board can monitor temp.

Using temp control & replay at the same time defeats the purpose in my opinion.. one you set by taste the other by temp - they essentially do the same thing by trying to meet conditions set by you.

If your using replay WITH temp control active, replay is going to try replicate your saved puff - temp control is going to kick in and limit it...

You mentioned if you disable temp control on your temp profile it's super hot vape - most likely active preheat/boost settings come to think of it.

Ok, so it’s my mistake in misinterpreting your earlier post. You like to use REPLAY in the mode it was intended for, WATTS mode. I have a profile setup for that, and in the “materials” drop down in Escribe, it’s set for WATTS. You have your reasons why you don’t believe it’s appropriate to use REPLAY in a TC mode where one sets the temperature. I’m playing with both, there is no 3rd option/workaround, so now we are clear, and I apologize for my misunderstanding  of your earlier post. 

[ruckus]

5 minutes ago, mactavish said:

Ok, so it’s my mistake in misinterpreting your earlier post. You like to use REPLAY in the mode it was intended for, WATTS mode. I have a profile setup for that, and in the “materials” drop down in Escribe, it’s set for WATTS. You have your reasons why you don’t believe it’s appropriate to use REPLAY in a TC mode where one sets the temperature. I’m playing with both, there is no 3rd option/workaround, so now we are clear, and I apologize for my misunderstanding  of your earlier post. 

I probably should of worded it differently. We got there in the end !!

Best of luck, regardless how you use replay, temp control whatever as long as it's enjoyable that's what's important.

[mactavish]

and BTW, using REPLAY in a TC PROFILE, might not limit the temperature to what you set. I constantly monitor the on mod graphs, and in my TC SS316L profile, running REPLAY, I see in the graph screen, 23 Watts, and TWO temperature recordings, I assume a high and low, of 444F, and 477F, while my temp setting is at 465F. A lot more going on here then we may assume. 

[hawk256]

26 minutes ago, JRH78 said:

On my 75c replay is a clear box. When it fires nothing comes up. Any help??? Thanks 

Make sure you are using stainless steel wire.

[mactavish]

4 minutes ago, hawk256 said:

Make sure you are using stainless steel wire.

Any approved TC wire should work as well. SS, Titanium, Nickel, etc. 

[JRH78]

 

12 minutes ago, hawk256 said:

Make sure you are using stainless steel wire.

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