DNA250C using NiFe problems

[LeeWB3]

After fully calibrating it my Boxer needed a 0.018 offset.  After applying that I'm currently getting consistent ohm readings (+/-.002) with 6 DNA 75Cs.  Since I only have one Boxer I have no way of knowing if different offsets are needed for different ones.  That said, you guys are seeing enough of a difference to suggest a significant problem.  Hope it's not one that develops over time since mine is currently fine.

[bladedoza]

Heres my lost vape therion 75c BF.  Same coils I did the  last post with dual full stainless double core claptons that test .12. I shouldn't have to fiddle with it or see some of the worst set screws I've seen In my life. I pay for premium I expect premium. China can do it right, even right out of the box. And the leaking problems, what a shame. What's  up ginger vapor/Boxer mods?

Edited April 14, 2018 by bladedoza

[LeeWB3]

4 minutes ago, bladedoza said:

Heres my lost vape therion 75c BF.  Same coils I did the  last post with dual full stainless double core claptons that test .12. China can do it right. What's up with boxer.

What's your 2nd Boxer actually reading in Atomizer analyzer?  If it read it at 0.125 instead of your LV's 0.122 then it would round it to the 0.13 shown on your screen shot.  A simple increase in electrical offset of 0.003 would make them identical.  If, OTHO, it's actually reading 0.134 you'd show the same but have to increase offset by 0.012 to match the LV.  As I stated, mine needed an offset of 0.018 (total).  My LV Therion needed 0.014.

[bladedoza]

It shows the same as pictured in my last post just one less decimal in atomizer mode

[LeeWB3]

OK, assuming that means 0.130 and you want it to read that coil as 0.122 (because you believe that to be correct or just because you want your mods to use the same settings if you move the atomizer around) then:

1)  Open Escribe.
2)  Make sure your Options are set so the User Interface shows "Manufacturer"
3)  Go into the Mod Tab
4)  Under that switch to the Electrical Tab
5)  Add 0.008 to whatever is current in the Mod Resistance box.  If it's still Evolve's default of 0.004 that would mean you're gonna set it to 0.012.  (My Boxer need 0.018 to match a known standard).
6)  Upload it to your unit and the Boxer should now read coils the same as your Therion BF.

Note I don't have a Therion BF, but my Therion needed an offset different than Evolve's default to match up to absolutely known coils (tested with instruments with precision much better than most electricians have).  NO major manufacturers seem to be calibrating their mods worth a darn so this ain't a Boxer only problem.  The VaporShark DNA 200 Rev 2 and 3 and the Hobo are the only two mods that I actually trust.  And those used a DNA 200 while the new C version of the chip measures ohms so differently that you can't even use those gold standards to calibrate these mods....  Evolve should really give better guidance to manufacturers....

Edited April 14, 2018 by LeeWB3

[bladedoza]

I have 4 lostvape Dna mods only the one is color. All 4 read perfectly. 2 are squonks.

Edited April 14, 2018 by bladedoza

[LeeWB3]

This is hijacking the thread so I won't respond here again.  Feel free to PM me for links to videos I've done on how to actually calibrate a DNA mod since none of the major manufacturers actually do it.

I'm glad you like Lost Vapes and am glad you have had consistent responses from them.  However, unless you can read coils with a reference ohm meter that can read accurately down to 0.0001 ohms there is no way you can know that they actually are calibrated correctly, only that they are calibrated well to each other.

I currently have four five Lost Vapes as well.  I have a Halcyon which needs an offset of 0.0095, an Effusion Duo which needs an offset of 0.010, a Therion 133 which needs an offset of 0.015, a Therion 75c which needs an offset of 0.014 and a Paranormal 250c with a needed offset of 0.0167.  I also previously had an original Therion BF 75 which needed an offset of 0.008 (it fried the chip sitting on my shelf when it siphoned a complete tank into itself).  With those offsets these mods match the other 35 DNA mods I own including 2 Hobo Aluminiums, a Hobo Stab and a VaporShark DNA 200 Rev 2.  However, all of my Lost Vapes mods came stock with an offset of 0.004 - which is Evolve's recommended number if you don't want to bother actually doing a through calibration.  It's an industry issue sometimes addressed by boutique manufacturers (e.g. my Big Apple Mods DNA75BF).

The ONLY real problem with a mod having to have a reasonable offset (say up to 0.025) is if it doesn't change linearly as resistance changes - i.e. when you use TC coils that should change from, say, 0.15 to 0.25 at the temperature you want and the problem mod actually changes from 0.15 (so, a good cold read) to 0.27 at that same temp.  This is most often due to weak springs in a spring loaded 510 which lose strength when heated so they don't make as good of a connection while warm.

Follow my instructions above and it'll fix your concern because in my experience the Boxer is not having the weak spring issue.

Edited April 15, 2018 by LeeWB3

[AMDtrucking]

8 hours ago, LeeWB3 said:

Note I don't have a Therion BF, but my Therion needed an offset different than Evolve's default to match up to absolutely known coils (tested with instruments with precision much better than most electricians have).  NO major manufacturers seem to be calibrating their mods worth a darn so this ain't a Boxer only problem.  The VaporShark DNA 200 Rev 2 and 3 and the Hobo are the only two mods that I actually trust.  And those used a DNA 200 while the new C version of the chip measures ohms so differently that you can't even use those gold standards to calibrate these mods....  Evolve should really give better guidance to manufacturers....

The way you described is a good way, but a bit complicated, requiring pretty expensive precision milliohmmeter, which by the way, will change it's reading depending on how firmly you press the test probes. It is almost impossible to get consistent reading in such small resistances, like 5 mΩ, or even 15mΩ in your case. 

I use a different method of determining mod's internal resistance. I made a copper plug-screw M7.0 - 0.5mm (510 thread). I simply screw it in all the way and threfore short my connector and measure internal resistance using Escribe  Atomizer Analyzer. Works every time. Granted, my method does not measure internal resistance of the atomizer. But who's to say that I couldn't short the posts of my atomizer as well?

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by AMDtrucking

[AMDtrucking]

5 hours ago, LeeWB3 said:

This is hijacking the thread so I won't respond here again

Nonsense. Hijack it all you want. I wish that moderators would rename it to something more appropriate. Like DNA250C issues or Boxer BF DNA250 problems. 

[bladedoza]

AMDtrucking your vape tool collection makes me jelly

[AMDtrucking]

47 minutes ago, bladedoza said:

AMDtrucking your vape tool collection makes me jelly

Yes, I take my vaping hobby very seriously. 

Off Topic: This is a little (40lb) machine I made to wrap my coils. Head-stock is fully synchronized with tail-stock by timing belts. When several round or flat wires, ere secured in their Dremel chucks, I turn that adjustment long screw (greenish looking) and stretch my wires so they are as straight as an arrow, the machine is telescopic.    

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by AMDtrucking

[LeeWB3]

My videos describe using a shorting pin as you are using.  Unfortunately, very, very careful testing of the C series chips shows that the method Evolve uses to measure ohms is very non-linear as the reading approaches 0, i.e. the offset needed at a cold reading of <0.06 or so is not the same offset needed for cold ohm readings of actual coils between 0.15-0.80 or so.  Thus a shorting pin worked reasonably well for the previous chips but generally isn't good enough to give accurate readings on the Cs.  Therefore a measurement of multiple known coils across the vaping range was conducted and an average offset developed.  For actual coils this method is much closer to correct.  Note these tests were done with the now current firmware (4/15/18) but Evolve was changing their method during several of the previous SPs so they may change this again and change needed offsets.

[AMDtrucking]

@LeeWB3, You keep saying  "In my video"  but did not provide the link to your video. I am interested to see it.

[Wayneo]

@AMDtrucking He's got about 4 of 'em. 

 

[LeeWB3]

These were done for the DNA 250/200/166/133/75 series of chips.  The DNA 60 can also be done this way, but there is no thermal calibration routine available in Escribe when using a 60 so it's difficult to get that part right and not having it right will impact mod resistance measurements for TC coils.  The 75C uses a VERY different algorithm to determine ohms.  It was implemented so the mod didn't send a continuous signal to the coil which tends to heat up TC coils resulting in higher and higher readings as you continue to sample.  I have not verified the 250C uses the same algorithm as the 75C, but it seems to.  Unfortunately, that algorithm breaks down as resistance approaches 0 so a shorting pin does not give good estimates of the offset needed for the ohms in normal coils.

Initial Setup:  https://youtu.be/wgK3IUCjrKk

Thermial Calibration:  https://youtu.be/BlVWc49qbPY

Mod Resistance Calibration:  https://youtu.be/S8f6WtY-f70

Battery Calibration:  https://youtu.be/pNsAHmZ-E0o

They were created for a Facebook group devoted to technical aspects of vaping with emphasis on TC vaping on which I am one of the admins.  We primarily all use Sweet Spot Vapers Ti wire on DNA boards, but all varieties are welcome.  Anyone interested can PM me and I'll tell you the group name, but haven't cleared this with other Admins so won't post publicly.

These are our groups general consensus on the best you can do with home tools.  We strongly encourage manufacturers to AT LEAST do this, but better techniques are available if you have the budget, i.e. the testing of a range of known coils and averaging (it's expensive to have truly "known" coils).

Edited April 15, 2018 by LeeWB3

[LeeWB3]

7 hours ago, AMDtrucking said:

Yes, I take my vaping hobby very seriously. 

Off Topic: This is a little (40lb) machine I made to wrap my coils. Head-stock is fully synchronized with tail-stock by timing belts. When several round or flat wires, ere secured in their Dremel chucks, I turn that adjustment long screw (greenish looking) and stretch my wires so they are as straight as an arrow, the machine is telescopic.    

 

Nice setup!  Not having this, I typically buy premade claptons from a large supplier to achieve more consistency.  I AM able to be pretty consistent with simple twisted wire so I use a lot of that.

[bladedoza]

Still no reply from ginger vapor.  And it looks like they hide the phone number from the public. Wow

Edited April 16, 2018 by bladedoza

[NMEones]

On 4/14/2018 at 8:51 AM, bladedoza said:

Ok so I bought a 2nd black but in gloss this time. As stated before even after all the trying to fix i did and minus AMDtucking's thread starter tool I did all the same things and i also replaced my set screw in the 510 copper adapter a 2nd time on the new one with a SS 3m bolt with a .50 pitch and a Allen head so I can actually tighten it. Mind you even with a much improved set screw in stalled the 510 adapter its housed in is finicky. 

On to the rest of the storie. To start i took all readings off the same atomizer a dead rabbit. I received the newer mod with even more resistance discrepencys than the first.  I got a .159 out of the box on my .12 coils. Replaced that set screw on the second one and after fiddling with it a bunch I got it to a .14. The picture with both mods show .1 difference after all the fiddling too.  Now I  have one mod with .01 and a second mod with .02 to much resistance. As a bonus the 510's on both seap juice. My gloss's finish is inconsistent. And I didnt get a return email from my 3 emails  i sent them between Thursday and Friday after receiving it Thursday at about 10 am.

I don’t see the gloss option on their site?  Did you contact them for that?

[AMDtrucking]

My Boxer is back from Evolv. Thanks Nick!

I pressure tested 510 connector and it does NOT leak.

I used 510 refill bottle filled with coffee. The other end of the tube is blocked. I squeezed the bottle pretty hard, as you can see, some of the coffee was pushed into the tube, compressing the air,   behind it. Bot NOT A SINGLE DROP was spilled by the connector.  Good job Ginger Vaper!

 

[AMDtrucking]

But I replaced it anyway, with MM510 because I don't like this brass positive connection with set screw and I have future plans on offsetting the bottle tube to be able to use taller bottle. I also used 14 gauge silicon wires, instead of original 16 gauge.

 

Edited April 20, 2018 by AMDtrucking

[sandboa]

My 510 was leaking very bad when I got mine. Sent it back for repair. Received it back four days ago with a deep gouge nearly all the way around the 510 from their install tool.  But the 510 was not leaking. Today, 510 has started leaking again!

[bladedoza]

I went to bed with a .14 ohm reading woke up to a .18 fiddling got me back down to .16 this is getting old.  The build is a .12 and I've never seen a .12 on either of my dna 250c mods. I seep juice between the threads and the plastic part that screws in. 

[bladedoza]

Anyone got a phone number for boxer or should I just send this into evolve? I'm not happy with either of the 2 boxer dna 250c squonks I own 

[bladedoza]

When I say fiddling with it I mean that copper 510 adapter with the set screw.  How's that mod maker 510 performing? I like the boxer 250c but I think this 510 is shit.

[AMDtrucking]

13 minutes ago, bladedoza said:

 How's that mod maker 510 performing?

It's great, I've been using MM510 for years, they never disappointed me. But remember: MM510 is M12 threaded and in order to fit it, I had to drill the hole 12mm in diameter and, with a dremel, make larger nut, fit on the inside.

Edited May 2, 2018 by AMDtrucking