Stainless steel-what do you find works best, having trouble getting it to work correctly (316L and 317L)

[Conanthewarrior]

Hi everyone. 

I really want to convert to SS as my wire of choice-as then I can use my tanks and drippers on the DNA200, or any other mod in my collection that does not have TC. 

I have tried MANY csv files, I find the best one is the one that come with my efusion, and 317L to work the best-although it still doesn't offer the level of control as TI or NI200, I still get partly burnt hits and such. 

I have two different brands of SS316L, and one brand of 317L. 

SS316L seems to decide on its own if it will work or not, sometimes being detected as a TC wire, other times not. 

317L always is detected as a TC capable wire, so that works-the standard steam engine CSV files do not work as well as the ones for the Efusion. 

Could anyone help me crack this, or is SS always going to be less precise than TI and NI200 due to its small change in resistance when heated? 

Does anyone have a file, for 316L or 317L, or should I get some 316 and 304 and try that? 

It would be great if I could change all my devices to run on this wire, and keep the odd tank or 2 for NI200 devices and TI capable devices as I have loads of tanks, same with drippers. 

I will be honest, I don't know how to create a custom CSV. 

I am using crazy wire branded 316L and 317L, the other manufacturer I do not know. 

Thanks everyone, Conan. 

[flem]

After a long time with the SS and many probs just like you I now only use Nife52 wire. It gives a better flavor than SS and is much easier to work with, much like Kanthal and the biggest pros are that the DNA200 CVS from Steam works out of the box. With this wire I get a steady temp reading , so I am a happy DNA200 user now.

[Conanthewarrior]

I forgot to add-I do know how to make a custom CSV using the wire wizard. 

OK-Nife52 Wire-I will be honest, I don't know anything about this wire. 

Is it as 'safe' as the other wires we use for TC? 

Can I also use this wire in power mode-like SS? 

If so, I am going to order some right now. 

I must ask though, not knowing anything about it, where does its resistance lay relative to TI and SS? Is it closer to TI or SS? 

Thank you for your help

[flem]

Hi. It is closest to TI. Yes you can use it in power mode just like SS, but this wire is just like Kanthal to work with.

The best place to buy this Nife52 is at a german shop and they are fairly cheap and ship very quickly. They call it Nife48, but it is Nife 52. I will suggest you searc for Nife52 coils on our friend Google and you will get many links which is about this great wire.

The german shop which also have English is here

http://www.zivipf.com/epages/63862298.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/63862298/Categories/Heizdraht/NiFe48

good luck and have a great day.

[Spector NS5 RD]

+1 for zivipf's nife 52. using a dual build in my goblin mini. great in tc or power mode. easy to work with as well.

[iCope]

Hi, I'm a 317L user too but now I would like to try the Nife 52 as well. Can you please post the appropriate .csv file I need to install? Thx

[Conanthewarrior]

Hang on-I think I have gone and cracked it-I made a completely new custom CSV for the 317L, and realised the preheat was set to the efusion standard of 150, I reduced it to 80W-and it seems to be working. 

I have just ordered 6 reels of different wire types, I needed some more wire anyway so its no worry-but 317L in my royal hunter is not dry hitting, single coil, 2MM ID 6 wraps, 0.31 at 20W,  I may of finally cracked it-but I am pretty sure before I thought this, and the next day it was dry hitting. 

I will see how this goes and update this if it is still working tomorrow.

[flem]

Hi. Go here and choose nifetal52 and download

http://www.steam-engine.org/wirewiz.asp#

[lordmage]

i find ss works best with the preheat off. i use 

"Temperature (degF)","Electrical Resistivity"
-58,0.915064
-0,0.95433
68,1
121,1.15
302,1.2
380,1.25
482,1.30
572,1.35
800,1.40

which  is based a bit off of "DNA200-UD-SS_316L DJaquith V4"

Temperature (degF),Electrical Resistivity
-58,0.923064
68,1
212,1.15
302,1.2
392,1.24
482,1.28
572,1.312
800,1.398

[We87]

Lordmage can you elaborate on what those numbers are

[Gm111]

We87 said:

Lordmage can you elaborate on what those numbers are

They are the numbers you put in for a custom csv on escribe E.g. At 68*f you put the graph too 1..

[Trelga]

I'm having trouble as well, mine is very weak in TC, it says it hits Temp protection but the vape production is very very low, and the temp is nowhere near 420F.

[Spector NS5 RD]

under the special tab. you can also input a TCR value here (which i find easier) . all you need is the correct value for the wire type you are using ie - Ti, Ni200, nife, SS

[lordmage]

We87 said:

Lordmage can you elaborate on what those numbers are

or you can copy the numbers and save it to a .csv and load the profile one or the other set. 

[We87]

[QUOTE=lordmage]i find ss works best with the preheat off. i use 

"Temperature (degF)","Electrical Resistivity"
-58,0.915064
-0,0.95433
68,1
121,1.15
302,1.2
380,1.25
482,1.30
572,1.35
800,1.40
[/quote]

I tried this with the 316L SS wire I have and it wouldnt catch temp control, just stood in power mode.

Some profiles I have of DJaquith's worked (v3.25 and v7)

Is there something additional I need to do in order to get that particular CSV to work? Or am I just doing something wrong?

The coil was used in a Taifun GT2 IIRC it is 5 wraps around a 2.5mm which ohmed out on my reader at about 0.9 ohms for what its worth.

[lordmage]

[QUOTE=We87][QUOTE=lordmage]i find ss works best with the preheat off. i use 

"Temperature (degF)","Electrical Resistivity"
-58,0.915064
-0,0.95433
68,1
121,1.15
302,1.2
380,1.25
482,1.30
572,1.35
800,1.40
[/quote]

I tried this with the 316L SS wire I have and it wouldnt catch temp control, just stood in power mode.

Some profiles I have of DJaquith's worked (v3.25 and v7)

Is there something additional I need to do in order to get that particular CSV to work? Or am I just doing something wrong?

The coil was used in a Taifun GT2 IIRC it is 5 wraps around a 2.5mm which ohmed out on my reader at about 0.9 ohms for what its worth.

[/QUOTE]


i found what i have to do is play around with the first column a bit to get better performance my coil is a stock premade in the tfv4 which ohms out at .27 cold resistance.

"Temperature (degF)","Electrical Resistivity"
-58,0.915064
-0,0.95433
68,1
121,1.15
302,1.2
390,1.25
490,1.30
590,1.35
800,1.40

that's what i am currently running i also did the case analyser which could also play a factor.

if one off Dj works for you then i would stick with it find your sweet spot and vape on
if your not aware the first set of numbers corresponds to the temp the second beats me but it works for me. i usually run at 35-40 watts with no preheat 1,1,0.

i also watch the curve as i vape it goes right up and climbs steady to me point then maintains which is when the curve bounces. i have yet to push temp past 400 and it works smooth for me. to much wattage and its all over the place.

[VapingBad]

The 2nd column is what the resistance would be at that temp, the table is bases off the 68,1 which says the material is 1 ohm at 68 F (room temp).  Your mainly interested in the values around vaping temps.

[Johan]

My DNA200 will not read SS 316l as a TC wire. I've tried UD wire in 28, 26, and 24g in 4 different attys. Tried Dalquiths .csv's, Steamengines, and just TCR. Have some 317l and 430 on the way. What really gives me a sad face is the RX200 and Evic Mini both see this wire as TC, and work quite nicely with it.

[Bobby]

I also can't get SS to work properly in TC.
Once TC kicks in, the graph will become erratic. I have no problems with Ni200 and Ti. With those wires TC works like a charm, ever time, all the time (you can take a look here).
I have tried SS with several different settings, with dual SS304 coils in an Aromamizer and with a factory SS316L coil in an Ijoy Reaper Tank (the graphs below are with this tank). With both atty's I get a similar behavior. For me, this rules out the atty, the build and wire and poor wire-in-post connections.
I have also tried it without preheat but this only slows the heat-up of the coil, so it will take longer for the problem to show up, but does not solve it.

Two questions:
1. Can anybody explain the erratic behavior and offer a solution?
2. If anyone has this working, can you please post the graph of a working TC on SS316 (or another SS) and your settings, so I know what I am doing wrong?

The first graph is an example of the erratic behavior. The second one is the behavior if TC doesn't kick in (ie. the Temp doesn't not reach the setpoint). I now use this 'high temp protection' setting to get a decent vape but it is not temperature control as it should be.
(I have made my own graphs from the recorded data, since I can't see the resistance variation very well in the device monitor, due to the low resolution. The resistance uses the secondary axis on the right)

[lordmage]

i have read in a few places that SS for Tc works best at or above .5 with spaced coils and at least 28AWG using 430 rather than 316. . even large ID but no a lasa i have no SS to test ATM. 

from my experience with premade STC2 coils i run it. never does it reach a true TC like Ni but my curve climbs slow depending on wattage then goes bonkers if it hits the set point. i sort of gave up on TC with SS wire i use it in tc mode due to better flavor somehow. maybe it is placebo. my go to settings have been posted and tweaked but i float tween my own and dj v4 or v3. but each shows the bonkers issue if it hits the set point if not it is a smooth approach with a punch finish.

[HugeEgo]

28 gauge 430 SS works about as well as Ti for me.  You can get 430 SS wire (as well as 317L) from unkamensupplies.com.  The downside is 430 is not as corrosion resistant as 316/317.

Personally, I just keep going back to Ti.  I am not sure why so many people refuse to use it (I guess because of the scare of TiO2 which is completely overblown).  316/317 SS just isn't a great TC wire because it just doesn't have a high enough TCR. 

Another option is to use one of the Iron-nickel alloys (Nifethal, etc.).  Or if you're a high-roller, you could buy some 32 gauge sterling silver or platinum wire and vape like a rockstar.

Finally, I think it's possible that some of the wire from China (UD) is not the correct alloy.  This could explain some of the weird results people are getting.  I know that Joyetech labels some of their coils as 316 SS when it most definitely is not 316.  Just as one example.  Unkanmensupplies claims their wire is made in the USA so the wire they sell is most likely following the proper ASTM specs.  The Chinese do things their own way and often don't follow western specifications or standards.  Not that their wire is bad or unsafe, but it might be "different," which can throw TC off.  Go to Fastech and look at their Ti wire.  None of it is labeled as grade 1.  Someone asked FT what "grade" the wire is and they responded "There are no grades in China."  So it might be grade 1 or 2, or it might be grade 5.  I am sure it really is Ti wire, but it might not match up exactly with CP Grade 1 wire made to western specs.

[Bobby]

Thanks for your thoughts, guys.

Off course I can use another type of TC wire (and I do) since I do not have any issue with Ni or Ti and it works great, but a lot of vapers comment that SS is the best TC vape since sliced bread, but my DNA 'can't handle' it. If this is a fact of DNA200-life and nothing can be done about it, so be it. I'd be more than happy to use Ni, Ti or any of the other TC wire but I do not understand this and that bugs the hell outta me.

So anybody, please heeeelp!

[Conanthewarrior]

HugeEgo said:

28 gauge 430 SS works about as well as Ti for me.  You can get 430 SS wire (as well as 317L) from unkamensupplies.com.  The downside is 430 is not as corrosion resistant as 316/317.

Personally, I just keep going back to Ti.  I am not sure why so many people refuse to use it (I guess because of the scare of TiO2 which is completely overblown).  316/317 SS just isn't a great TC wire because it just doesn't have a high enough TCR. 

Another option is to use one of the Iron-nickel alloys (Nifethal, etc.).  Or if you're a high-roller, you could buy some 32 gauge sterling silver or platinum wire and vape like a rockstar.

Finally, I think it's possible that some of the wire from China (UD) is not the correct alloy.  This could explain some of the weird results people are getting.  I know that Joyetech labels some of their coils as 316 SS when it most definitely is not 316.  Just as one example.  Unkanmensupplies claims their wire is made in the USA so the wire they sell is most likely following the proper ASTM specs.  The Chinese do things their own way and often don't follow western specifications or standards.  Not that their wire is bad or unsafe, but it might be "different," which can throw TC off.  Go to Fastech and look at their Ti wire.  None of it is labeled as grade 1.  Someone asked FT what "grade" the wire is and they responded "There are no grades in China."  So it might be grade 1 or 2, or it might be grade 5.  I am sure it really is Ti wire, but it might not match up exactly with CP Grade 1 wire made to western specs.

Hi, I have found that 317L still seems to be working, but it needs a lot of airflow or power reduces so much it does not produce any vapour. 

If I am honest-TI is also my favourite wire. I just have some memory issues, and I have a LOT of tanks and drippers-so sometimes I can forget what is TI and what is kanthal, to use on my other devices that do not have TC (All of my mods in the collection get some use, even older ones). 

I was hoping to get SS working due to being able to use it in both power mode and TC mode, so my memory issues would not matter. 

But-I agree the dangers of TI seem overblown, and it is perfect for building dual coils and single coils that work well in TC mode. 

NI200 is just too low resistance for anything other than 28 gauge single coils, and I find higher gauges are very fragile, so I don't use any higher (some of my first TC mods only support NI200). 

But, TI seems to be the wire of choice for me. 

If 28 gauge 430 SS works as well as TI for you, I will definitely give that a shot. Thank you for telling me somewhere I can get it in the UK-I will order some now. 

I received some NIfe30 today, as I could not find NIfe52 in the UK, from stealth vape. 

This sits between NI200 and TI, I will probably use the spool up, as it works well, but again needs a lot of wraps to work (28 gauge), and duals seem out of the question with it. 

I know we are talking different wire types, but I have found that 26 gauge is my favourite gauge to use, It is pretty solid, and has enough surface area in a coil (depending on wire type of course-But kanthal and TI, I actually use 27 gauge TI as it is a lot closer to building with kanthal, not needing silly wraps a side to work).

I really, really want SS to work, I have got 317L working well on my EVIC VTC mini with the custom TCR feature, So I have tried to simply enter its TCR instead of loading a CSV file, but Escribe says the value is too low to be used, and I can not enter it (0.00094).


I came to that conclusion after using steam engines wire wizard for 317l, 940X10-Power of 6. (Sorry, I do not know how to get the number to appear above the others as it should in text, it should read as 940x10 with the -6 in the top right, so I just put minus by the power of six instead). 

[Voku]

On SS316L problem is too small difference in resistance. TiA1 has a greater range of resistance temperature change.

SS316L
  

TiA1
  

[Bobby]

@Voku; Thanks mate! So I guess it is what it is with SS and I haven't screwed up.

I know that the real temperature of the coil cannot jump so quickly, so what I see is because of the inaccuracy of the measurements. Therefor I also suspected that the SS316L problem was due to too small differences in resistance because of the low TCR and that, because of this, the measurement system cannot measure it as accurately as Ni/Ti, but I don't think it is.
I started this topic about the measurement accuracy and Vapingbad posted smooth Ni and Ti graphs with coils that have a similar ?R per degree C compared to my SS coils.

VapingBad said:

The top 2 are a 0.049 ohm dual twisted Ni200 build in an Aromamizer, if the TCR is 0.00641 then ?R per degree C is ~0.314 milliohm, preheat was 100 W. 
The 3rd is a 0.224 ohm 0.4 mm TiG1 dual build in an Aromamizer, if the TCR is 0.00366 then ?R per degree C is ~0.82 milliohm, preheat was 100 W.
The bottom one is a dual 0.5x0.1 ribbon Ni200 on stainless steal wicks in an Origenny V2, if the TCR is 0.00641 then ?R per degree C is ~0.3 milliohm, preheat was 80 W. 

The cold resistance of my SS304 dual coil was 0.47 Ohm. The TCR of 0.00105 results in a ?R per degree C of ~0.5 mOhm. My SS316L coil is 0.35 Ohm and the TCR of 0.00092 results in a ?R per degree C of ~0.3 mOhm.

So I still can't figure out why SS does this or am I missing something?.