bubbathemoose Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 After pestering my friend yet again (who is an electrical systems design engineer in the aerospace industry) and showing him the DNA200 and escribe in detail, his conclusion is that due to the small tolerances in deviation, fine measurements and the number of variables used in temperature control with the DNA200 (and temperature control vaping in general), many of the user settings such as case temperature co-efficients and mod resistance settings would be difficult for the home user to get accurate outside of laboratory conditions.Although I am no expert in electrical or thermal testing I would suggest this why users are getting different results from each other within their own tests (is everyone using the same test equipment and methodology?) especially regarding case thermal analysis and mod resistance, of course I could be wrong.Again I feel that device manufacturers should have done the research before the release of the devices themselves so that every thing would already be in place and users would not be having to hunt around for device specific settings. I know many of my vaping buddies who have also been vaping for many years, and who are also owners of various DNA200 devices, tend to agree.I'm not bashing Evolv or the DNA200 in any way shape or form, Evolv are a decent company and the DNA200 is a great board, but I feel that many of the device manufacturers have not fully done the ground work for the release of their DNA200 devices. Even after using relatively high end gear such as my friends Fluke meter and oscilloscope, I am still not fully confident in my own findings, or the manufacturers numbers regarding accuracy, even though the settings seem to be working fine at the moment.I agree with Rune, that perhaps there should be independent tests done preferably by a certified electrical test laboratory to confirm the data being released by device manufacturers as this would give us a better idea about the accuracy of device manufacturers data in general.My advice to anyone who is uncertain about the data given by Volcano or any device manufacturer at that regarding the DNA200 would be to leave the settings as per Evolv default. Make sure however that you have put your battery data correct as apparently that is one of the most important settings to have right from the get go.I think that this is a topic that will be going on for some time yet, until we can be confident that the numbers we are given by the manufacturers are correct. Apart from keeping on to device manufacturers to provide validated data, I don't see what else we can do. The choices at the moment are, use Evolv defaults, use the numbers from our own tests (even though they may not be accurate) or use the numbers provided by the device manufacturers (again these may not be accurate), you pays your money and takes your choice on this one i'm afraid to say.In some ways I can see why so many mech users still love their 'simple' mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmclaurin Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 There is nothing mysterious or complicated about measuring the mod resistance. Just short the 510 with something like a brass or copper pin and read the result in the atomizer analyzer. Done. Really don't think you need laboratory conditions for that. And, if in doubt, there is absolutely nothing wrong with leaving it at zero. This will simply cause the chip to err on the conservative side of the temp control loop. On the other hand, it would be unwise to plug in a number that is too high, as it will then err on the "wrong" side. James and/or John posted on this a while ago, but I can't find the post at the moment. If I recall correctly, they recommended taking something like a 20% haircut on your measured result, just to be on the safe side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbathemoose Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 If that is the case, then my calculations are correct and correlate with Volcano's data, that is my Lavabox does indeed read around 0.02 ohms to high before mod resistance adjustment, i have done my own experiments several times both shorting out the 510 with a 7x0.5 brass bolt and using different atomizers as reference and the results are always the same, around 0.02 ohms, maybe Volcano's numbers are correct after all.I agree with the previous posters comments, if you are unsure just leave the mod resistance at 0 and err on the side of caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewall Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Following all the questions about the thermal numbers and mod resistance, I have another one for you guys. I've read SO MANY different things EVERYWHERE.We all know that the battery capacity should be set at 9.99Wh but what about the soft cut off ?I've talked to some people and some had 3.09V (the DNA200 default value) out of the box and some (like me) had 3.66V.What do you guys think ? has anyone a definite answer about that ?I obivously want to get the best battery life. But I also don't want to damage my cells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VapingBad Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 You would need a reason to have anything other than the default and I would stick to that 3.09 V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewall Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 VapingBad said:You would need a reason to have anything other than the default and I would stick to that 3.09 V.My default was 3.66. Some other people had 3.09VI didn't change it yet. My battery was going down like normal for a day and then, like 5 minutes ago, jumped from 25% to 44%.Not sure what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VapingBad Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I meant the Evolv default of 3.09 V, LiPo voltages are determined by the chemistry so the top and bottom cut-off voltages are the same across standard LiPos, there are some special ones designed to take higher voltage but that doesn't apply here. The only reasons I can think of to increase the low cut off is the battery has a much too low C rating (I doubt that) or to extend battery life, but the Max Recharges setting would be better for that. I would put it to 3.09 V myself, but you could try and contact them first to confirm that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewall Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 VapingBad said:I meant the Evolv default of 3.09 V, LiPo voltages are determined by the chemistry so the top and bottom cut-off voltages are the same across standard LiPos, there are some special ones designed to take higher voltage but that doesn't apply here. The only reasons I can think of to increase the low cut off is the battery has a much too low C rating (I doubt that) or to extend battery life, but the Max Recharges setting would be better for that. I would put it to 3.09 V myself, but you could try and contact them first to confirm that.I asked them. They told me I can put it down to 3.09v. Then I asked if it's not too low and they said "well maybe 3.66 then". At the end of the day I'm not sure then.Is there any risk to damage the cell by putting at 3.09v or some battery failure/blow up ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VapingBad Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Bluewall said:[QUOTE=VapingBad]I meant the Evolv default of 3.09 V, LiPo voltages are determined by the chemistry so the top and bottom cut-off voltages are the same across standard LiPos, there are some special ones designed to take higher voltage but that doesn't apply here. The only reasons I can think of to increase the low cut off is the battery has a much too low C rating (I doubt that) or to extend battery life, but the Max Recharges setting would be better for that. I would put it to 3.09 V myself, but you could try and contact them first to confirm that.I asked them. They told me I can put it down to 3.09v. Then I asked if it's not too low and they said "well maybe 3.66 then". At the end of the day I'm not sure then.Is there any risk to damage the cell by putting at 3.09v or some battery failure/blow up ?[/QUOTE]No, 3.09 V is fine and would not significantly increase your risk of battery failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewall Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 VapingBad said:[QUOTE=Bluewall][QUOTE=VapingBad]I meant the Evolv default of 3.09 V, LiPo voltages are determined by the chemistry so the top and bottom cut-off voltages are the same across standard LiPos, there are some special ones designed to take higher voltage but that doesn't apply here. The only reasons I can think of to increase the low cut off is the battery has a much too low C rating (I doubt that) or to extend battery life, but the Max Recharges setting would be better for that. I would put it to 3.09 V myself, but you could try and contact them first to confirm that.I asked them. They told me I can put it down to 3.09v. Then I asked if it's not too low and they said "well maybe 3.66 then". At the end of the day I'm not sure then.Is there any risk to damage the cell by putting at 3.09v or some battery failure/blow up ?[/QUOTE]No, 3.09 V is fine and would not significantly increase your risk of battery failure.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the help, I really appreciate ! Volcano told me they should have the CSV file ready early next week for the Lavabox. I hope they will deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmclaurin Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I'm running the test now on my Lavabox DNA 200 and will post the .CSV as soon as it's finished. Running it at 50W into a ghetto 0.9 ohm resistor consisting of 4 long-ish (and ugly) loops of 24-gauge kanthal wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmclaurin Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Test complete. Mine came in at 9.949 Wh at 50W and a 3.09v specified cutoff voltage. The .csv file is attached (remove .txt extension from filename).Lavabox_DNA_200_3S_11.1v_9.949_Wh_Battery.csv.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xer0 Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Thanks, i'm using this.I did notice when the Wh was set at 9.99 the cell voltages charged to 4.21 which seemed to be .01 over the maximum. I'm certainly no expert which worries me more when I'm playing around with this stuff and relying on forums. I'm guessing there are some small tolerances built in for safety, don't quote me on that.I've watched the whole Pbusardo DNA200 reviews....twice!This csv file should ideally work on all Lavaboxes? My room temp in the device monitor is reading 75F which is probably a couple of degrees over. Didn't seem to change whether I was using this CSV file or the default.Great points made on this forum btw, Volcano should have sorted this out prior to dispatch!One other thing slightly off topic, the mini usb plug that goes into the unit on mine seems to only go about half way in, the socket almost doesn't seem quite deep enough. Connects and charges ok tho, anyone else have this on their Lavabox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactavish Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 That's as far as my mini USB plug goes in as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbathemoose Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Re Lavabox micro USB.My USB does not go all the way in the Lavabox either, nor does my buddies. From what i have seen the USB connectors are all the same on the Lavabox, in fact a number of my devices are the same including my M Class, the USB does not push in flush with the device.Just be gentle when inserting or removing the USB plug from the device as not to put undue strain on the device USB socket.As a side note, how is everyone getting on with the Lavabox, any problems, quirks or annoyances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmclaurin Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 xer0 said:...I did notice when the Wh was set at 9.99 the cell voltages charged to 4.21 which seemed to be .01 over the maximum.... This csv file should ideally work on all Lavaboxes? My room temp in the device monitor is reading 75F which is probably a couple of degrees over. Didn't seem to change whether I was using this CSV file or the default.... I wouldn't worry about the charge termination voltage at 4.21v. To be clear, though, this .csv file is simply the discharge curve for the Lavabox's stock Lipo pack. It should have no effect on temp readings and such. What it will do is give you a more accurate estimate of the pack's state of charge, assuming your pack has the same actual capacity as mine (and no two packs are identical in this regard), you are firing your atty at or around 50w, and your soft cell cutoff voltage is set to 3.09v (since these are the parameters I used for this test). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xer0 Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Thanks for the info, and excuse my ignorance. But you mention firing your atty at 50watts, surely this is subject to change depending on your atty? If I was firing at say 25 watts for a couple of tanks, would this have an impact on my battery readings? Or is it just a control wattage in order to gain your results (like an average to gain an accurate curve across the board?)Sorry if i'm asking obvious questions, but i'm still learning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmclaurin Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 bubbathemoose said:As a side note, how is everyone getting on with the Lavabox, any problems, quirks or annoyances? My fire button tends to stick if not pressed in the center, which is both frustrating and potentially dangerous. The tinted screen window also tends to scratch up a bit from routine use, but that's no big deal to me. The only other thing that I've noticed so far (and this is something I was well aware of before I bought it) is that the battery life is disappointing; and although I really like the size and form factor of the device, it doesn't allow much flexibility for fitting larger capacity Lipo packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmclaurin Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 xer0 said:Thanks for the info, and excuse my ignorance. But you mention firing your atty at 50watts, surely this is subject to change depending on your atty? If I was firing at say 25 watts for a couple of tanks, would this have an impact on my battery readings? Or is it just a control wattage in order to gain your results (like an average to gain an accurate curve across the board?)Sorry if i'm asking obvious questions, but i'm still learning No problem on the questions at all. I actually like discussing this stuff. I really just mean that the curve is optimized for 50 watts output power. It will still be reasonably accurate at differing discharge rates. I chose to run the test at 50w because that is the power setting at which I typically (on average, if you will) vape most of my atty's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 bubbathemoose said:Re Lavabox micro USB.My USB does not go all the way in the Lavabox either, nor does my buddies. From what i have seen the USB connectors are all the same on the Lavabox, in fact a number of my devices are the same including my M Class, the USB does not push in flush with the device.Just be gentle when inserting or removing the USB plug from the device as not to put undue strain on the device USB socket.As a side note, how is everyone getting on with the Lavabox, any problems, quirks or annoyances?Same here in regards to the micro USB.One annoyance I have with mine is I can feel the battery move about sometime giving it a wobble. First time it happened I thought I hadn't secured the atty on tightly. I've taken the back plate off and the battery has the little foam square as per the reviews. I find the wobble to be quite irritating.My other annoyance is how some of the sites and reviewers said this has fast charging like the Vaporshark when it doesn't. The max current is 1a with the supplied charger or other 2a chargers. Oh and the charger has an American style plug despite the fact that I bought this in the UK.Other than that I love the look, feel and compactness of the device and it and my Cthulhu v2 black is my favourite combo looks wise so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewall Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 So all of you guys are setting the cut off to 3.09v ?Anyway, Volcano contacted and told me they double-triple-whatever checked the Lavabox and the internal resistance is 0.007 Ohm (which sounds about possible to me).Enjoy ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmclaurin Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Rune said:...My other annoyance is how some of the sites and reviewers said this has fast charging like the Vaporshark when it doesn't. The max current is 1a with the supplied charger or other 2a chargers.... Yeah, this bugged me too. I saw at least a couple reviews that said the device supported 2a charging, and that was one of the reasons I chose this model. Makes me wonder if maybe the pre-release versions supported it, but maybe it was scrapped for some reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Bluewall said:So all of you guys are setting the cut off to 3.09v ?Anyway, Volcano contacted and told me they double-triple-whatever checked the Lavabox and the internal resistance is 0.007 Ohm (which sounds about possible to me).Enjoy !Yep 3.09v. Mine was set to 3.66v originally.Cheers for that other bit of info, sounds far more what I was expecting and matches what another user in here was saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margucci Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 my lavabox is shipping right now. as someone who fully intends to use the escribe software to its fullest i have no issue personally if some of the settings need some changing. however, if i was not in that situation i would definitely be put off buying this product if i found out this information. you can generally assume that all the battery packs and case thermals are the same for each device (within the margin of error anyways). there might be some small variations in mod resistance just due to production tolerances but even that should be easily solved. as a final step before packaging how difficult would it be to screw in a copper short pin into the 510 to determine the resistance. then just enter that in the mod resistance field while uploading the lavabox standard CSV with the pretested battery and case information. this would take less than 1 minute per mod and would result in much more accurate performance. something so small would go such a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmlman Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Ok i am less than escribe smart haha got a lava box and have heard i can make my battery last longer by changing the settings in escribe. .. but i dont know if i should or what to change and to what can anyone help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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