retird Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 19 minutes ago, Dr.Zelon said: A lot of the users don´t vape in TC and buy DNA boards for their accuracy in Watts mode, adding a voltage mode or even just making the voltage directly showed in the screen without having to press the fire its not something that everyone is going to use that is pretty clear to me, but some could use it and the DNA boards will be more satisfying to some people. and that is good for everyone I think. Yep, vaping is subjective....... you might offer your suggestion to Evolv using this link: https://helpdesk.evolvapor.com/index.php?a=add&category=5 The Evolv team can then evaluate the merits and make a decision on future updates or features. They have implemented many suggested features, but not all, offered by users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayneo Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 36 minutes ago, Dr.Zelon said: ......... don´t vape in TC and buy DNA boards for their accuracy in Watts mode Absolutely, if your 'mod resistance' has been correctly set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbriggs Posted October 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Dr.Zelon said: He is JUST asking to let them see the volts without having to press fire... its not very difficult to understand Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VapingBad Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 3 hours ago, kbriggs said: Exactly. DNAs just don't work like that, they are true variable wattage regulators and don't just measure res and fix the voltage to provide the wattage, they constantly balance the voltage and current to sustain the wattage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbriggs Posted October 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 hour ago, VapingBad said: DNAs just don't work like that, they are true variable wattage regulators and don't just measure res and fix the voltage to provide the wattage, they constantly balance the voltage and current to sustain the wattage. On a Kanthal or Nichrome build in power mode, the voltage eventually gets to a steady output, specifically the square root of (watts * ohms) per Ohms Law. I just want to see that value cold before firing instead of just 0.00 like it shows now. I don't care that it may be off by 0.01 volts or so once the firing commences. I just want the extra bit of information so I can see what the eventual target is. This would be a trivial change to the firmware. It changes nothing in how the device operates and requires no UI changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VapingBad Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 hour ago, kbriggs said: On a Kanthal or Nichrome build in power mode, the voltage eventually gets to a steady output, specifically the square root of (watts * ohms) per Ohms Law. I just want to see that value cold before firing instead of just 0.00 like it shows now. I don't care that it may be off by 0.01 volts or so once the firing commences. I just want the extra bit of information so I can see what the eventual target is. This would be a trivial change to the firmware. It changes nothing in how the device operates and requires no UI changes. No offence, but you are not getting it is not one of those mods that just measures res to work out the voltage to use, it is more sophisticated and regulates watts in real time. All Evolv products have since the Darwin have worked like that and IMO it is just that when VW was copied many cut corners to get products out the door quickly and reduce costs and just did that calc to be able to adjust a VV board in Watts. Sure they could estimate volts, bit it would not be anything the device would ever use and IMO is why they never bother to do it. ETA watch this 3 year old video at 28:37 ETA 2: Though DNAs showing resistance is not a figure that they need to work, but has always been extremely important to the user, where voltage is more academic. On the 75C you could display atomizer voltage, it is a newish field and not even a value they record for last puff because it is data rather than information (has little useful meaning on it's own without context). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retird Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 36 minutes ago, VapingBad said: ETA 2: Though DNAs showing resistance is not a figure that they need to work, but has always been extremely important to the user, where voltage is more academic. On the 75C you could display atomizer voltage, it is a newish field and not even a value they record for last puff because it is data rather than information (has little useful meaning on it's own without context). Per VB's comment..... Here is a DNA75C theme screenshot that shows puff voltage and the screen time out can be set so you can read the last puff voltage long after the puff. After the screen goes out the puff voltage reading zero's out until vaped again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VapingBad Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, retird said: Here is a DNA75C theme screenshot that shows puff voltage and the screen time out can be set so you can read the last puff voltage long after the puff. After the screen goes out the puff voltage reading zero's out until vaped again... There in no last puff - voltage field, it is under miscellaneous, they (rightly IMO) don't think it worth recording. I think they have provided it because people ask, but it has FA to do with your vape experience, temp and watts are the important parameters, in that order IMO, everything else is just virtually useless interesting detail other than for debugging except ohms which is a very useful reading to tell if everything is ship shape. Nothing wrong in being interest in the minutia and can be valuable when working through issues, but it is not going to affect your vape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retird Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 LOL.... my bad.... I should have typed " the voltage of the last puff".... didn't mean to imply there is a last puff voltage field..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VapingBad Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, retird said: LOL.... my bad.... I should have typed " the voltage of the last puff".... didn't mean to imply there is a last puff voltage field..... Not your bad at all, just saying it has never been important except in debugging and that it has not even made it into the last puff stats to illustrate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbriggs Posted October 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 59 minutes ago, VapingBad said: No offence, but you are not getting it is not one of those mods that just measures res to work out the voltage to use, it is more sophisticated and regulates watts in real time. You are one not getting it. I know that DNA boards adjust voltage in real time if the resistance changes. And they do that by sampling the resistance at regular intervals and then recalculating the voltage it needs to send out via Ohm's Law. So what? The sampling rate is irrelevant. Wattage is not an electrical property, it's a calculation of power. The board doesn't send "watts" to the coil. It sends volts that are calculated from the desired watts and the measured resistance. And the resistance of Kanthal does not change in real time anyway, or at least not enough to even measure. The voltage that it settles on is perfectly predictable using Ohm's Law. I can see it directly on the screen if I fire and hold. But it reverts to 0.00 when I let go and thus cannot see it. I want to see it without firing. DNA boards are no different than other boards in how they calculate what voltage to send based on the wattage set in power mode. They all use Ohms Law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VapingBad Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 17 minutes ago, kbriggs said: You are one not getting it. I know that DNA boards adjust voltage in real time if the resistance changes. And they do that by sampling the resistance at regular intervals and then recalculating the voltage it needs to send out via Ohm's Law. So what? The sampling rate is irrelevant. Wattage is not an electrical property, it's a calculation of power. The board doesn't send "watts" to the coil. It sends volts that are calculated from the desired watts and the measured resistance. And the resistance of Kanthal does not change in real time anyway, or at least not enough to even measure. The voltage that it settles on is perfectly predictable using Ohm's Law. I can see it directly on the screen if I fire and hold. But it reverts to 0.00 when I let go and thus cannot see it. I want to see it without firing. DNA boards are no different than other boards in how they calculate what voltage to send based on the wattage set in power mode. They all use Ohms Law. No it monitors current and adjust voltage to regulate wattage, resistance measurement is not needed at all for that. You are right about Kanthal in the main part, it varies, but by so little you would never notice it. Honestly there is absolutely no need to measure res to regulate Watts, it is just a cheaper method to measure, fix and not bother regulating. And you are right that they could display it and they give that option now, but it is pointless metric for everyday use and means little unless you apply the Joule heating equations to work out the heating power watts, but why would you when that is already displayed? (Ohm's law says nothing about heat (Watts), that's Joule heating, it's formulas do tend to get bundled with Ohm's laws for convenience, it's a common misconception) ETA really not trying to needlessly find fault with your points kbrigs and I'm sure more people see it the way you do, peace and respect for caring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Zelon Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 49 minutes ago, VapingBad said: ETA really not trying to needlessly find fault with your points kbrigs and I'm sure more people see it the way you do, peace and respect for caring. A lot of people including me and pretty much everyone I know who vape use volts to calculate his vaping experience because its easier if you know you like to vape most of the time like that first puff from a fresh battery in a mech mod at around 4.2v then you adjust your watts to give you around that with your current resistance and pretty much all the Chinese boards actually shows you the volts, the DNA actually does it too... you just have to press fire... i don't think its really that big of a deal to implement it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VapingBad Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Dr.Zelon said: A lot of people including me and pretty much everyone I know who vape use volts to calculate his vaping experience because its easier if you know you like to vape most of the time like that first puff from a fresh battery in a mech mod at around 4.2v then you adjust your watts to give you around that with your current resistance and pretty much all the Chinese boards actually shows you the volts, the DNA actually does it too... you just have to press fire... i don't think its really that big of a deal to implement it. They have implemented it on the 75C, but if I understand you correctly you are shooting for a number in volts, it would still be a fixed number in Watts, not just for that one coil and would be universal (not specific to that coil(s) resistance). I am English, we changed to the metric system in 1972 and there are still a few thing I think of in the old units, doesn't change what they are, just habit and very human, doesn't affect the real world at all (what your vape is doing), just how you understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbriggs Posted October 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 hour ago, VapingBad said: but it is pointless metric for everyday use It may be pointless to you but not to me. Some people have no use for a tachometer in their car and some like to know where their red line is. I also use mech mods where I'm very cognizant of voltage and will usually build on a DNA device before moving it over. And yes, I was lumping the power equations in with Ohm's law since they are interconnected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbriggs Posted October 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 hour ago, VapingBad said: No it monitors current and adjust voltage to regulate wattage, resistance measurement is not needed at all for that. . So it's measuring current and calculating P / I to get V instead of measuring resistance and calculating sqrt(P * R) to get V? That's interesting and would be a faster calculation. Now if you told me the chip did not have a sqrt() function built into it then what I'm asking for wouldn't be possible. But I doubt that's the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VapingBad Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 17 hours ago, kbriggs said: So it's measuring current and calculating P / I to get V instead of measuring resistance and calculating sqrt(P * R) to get V? That's interesting and would be a faster calculation. Now if you told me the chip did not have a sqrt() function built into it then what I'm asking for wouldn't be possible. But I doubt that's the case. It will be working out the res to get a starting point and give feedback so they could show that, but using resistance ( sqrt(P(V/I)) ) to regulate when P/I would be easier, faster and more accurate: no engineer would do that. They were first to market with VW and some of the followers just measure the res to supply a fixed voltage, this is why SS with temp limiting disabled is different to mods like that. On real time regulators like DNAs you get a flat wattage, on fixed voltage regulators and mechs the power drops a bit as the coils get hot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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