Mad Scientist
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Posts posted by Mad Scientist
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Sounds like a blown fuse.m4k3r said:Hey everyone, new here. Been lurking for a while and now I have a problem with my Tugboat DNA200. I'd like to ask the community about this before taking it in to the shop tomorrow.
I went to go build a titanium coil for my subtank to try it out. Got the coil installed, went to test fire and that's when the screen shut off (I'm assuming it shorted). Now I can't get it to turn back on without plugging it into a power source. I can still access the device through Escribe and have also tried hard rebooting, nothing. When I install a RDA (known working kanthal/ti/ni200 builds) while plugged in to power and I hit the fire button the device reads "Check Atomizer." Running "Atomizer Analyzer" yields question marks, room temp reads fine. Not sure what's going on and thought I'd throw this out there.
Thank you.
P.s. Love this device, it's been rock solid for me. Also running the latest firmware. -
That doesn't make sense. It would be no different than shipping a battery by itself, right? [/QUOTE] I think the regulations are different for flying batteries versus flying batteries in a device. Doesn't make a lot of sense but the people who write the regs aren't engineers and sometimes the regulatory process leads to compromises that just don't make sense.digatel said:[QUOTE=Jentz9517]Was just informed they can't ship battery and enclosure separately since it doesn't have the component it runs Dhl returned package to him - So we are screwed
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If I understand how the fire button works correctly, you can use an NPN transistor (2N3904 is fine). With base at or below emitter potential (less than voltage drop of base-emitter junction), unbiased, no current flow. Base forward biased (3.3V is plenty), current flow. Fire terminals would be +12 side to collector as shown and the other side replaces where ground is shown to the emitter resistor. CPU output pin to base resistor (your CPU output pin is simulated by the 0 and 3.3V sources in the screen grabs). Hopefully the simulation makes sense to you. Forward bias current through base of transistor (base emitter junction) and it conducts. Zero bias current, it doesn't conduct. Classic emitter follower. You may have to experiment with what the DNA wants to see at the other side of the fire button. Another approach would be classic open collector / common emitter configuration. See the third simulation screen grab. Some CPUs have at least a few open collector outputs. If yours does, you don't even need a transistor, just a current limiting resistor.fostac said:Still having trouble reliably triggering the fire action. I'm using a 2N3906 PNP transistor driven by a ~3.3v signal. I either burn out the transistor or I'm unable to close the switch so it just continuously fires. I've tried pulling a 2N3904 NPN, different arrangements of pull-down or pull-up resistors and I'm still lost.
A couple things I've learned though:
There is a 1k resistance between ground and the Fire - header.
My multimeter is telling me 0.5ma is running across the headers, but that's way too low, so I'm not sure what the actual value is.
Any help or clarification on John's solution from this thread would be amazing. -
The only way to diagnose is to know your settings. I guess the start would be are you sure the profile you think you're using is the one you're actually using. Next, can you post a screenshot of device manager while the unit is firing -- select at least temp, resistance and power for the graph.
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I don't know if I don't fully get the TC paradigm but I'm also in the camp that temp is the adjustment I want to make. To me at least, temp is the power setting and the set temp is translated to power by the device to keep the coil at the average temp I set. Even when evaluating builds, I set the temp I want and watch in device monitor as to how much power is being applied to achieve that setting. As a result, I set a power that's not outrageous for the build but also significantly higher than what I would vape at without TC. The preheat is set at a power level well higher than that. Then I adjust temp to my preference at the moment. I just think doing it the other way around adjusting and limiting wattage sort of defeats the idea of TC and turns into more of a temp protection rather than temp control. To each his own. If evolv would allow a choice of what the bottoms do I would be happy lol.
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I think the dangers of dry burning are just hype but there are admittedly still unknowns. A dental/industrial ultrasonic cleaner does a good job. Figure spending about $300 minimum. Or just recoil.Rich Smith said:On a kanger sub tank I use just a simple 7-8 wrap 28g single coil. When it's time for re-wicking I end up having to rebuild as I've read not to dry burn off gunk like with kanthal. Is it really unsafe to dry burn Nickel? I can usually get the cotton out (not always!) but then left with gunky nickel. Thanks for any help or advise!
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Are you saying each coil is a different material or you're talking about two different builds where neither worked properly? It won't work if one coil is Ni200 and one is Ti.androidbruce said:I have built ni200 and titanium (sweetspot) coils.
I still seem to get glowing coils and dry hits. With my previous SX Mini I didn't have any issues. I've used the SweetSpot csv they provided in one of the threads here.
I'm running dual coils. 26awg Ni200 and 0.5 SweetSpot, at 6 wraps, 2.5mm. Comes to around .14 ohms.
Is this DNA200 not supposed to stop firing when the cotton is dry?
Are there some specific things I should try for building temp control coils? What are safe temp/wattage for these ni200 and titanium coils?My goal warm vape with fairly dense clouds without fear of a dry hit.
Thank you in advance. -
Not any stores near me. The hardware departments are all in shambles. At my local Home Depot, half the prepackaged baggies of "ordinary" screws are missing a part or two from theft. Even a suburban ace hardware had many empty bins (including all the #0 hardware of course) and all the parts mixed up. People are all selfish, in a hurry and think nothing of the next guy or the future. I need to move to civilization lol.awsum140 said:Where is "around here"? Home Depot has them and Amazon and FleaBay have them by the ton, or tonne. Local "True Value" or Ace hardware stores should also have them and even have metric equivalents.
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I'm no expert on the topic but I recall reading that the same issue may have to do with the Wh setting for the pack. How do you have that setting configured and what battery are you using?
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If you're having that much trouble, my advice would be to return to a simple single wire, single coil atty. if that doesn't work well, it's very likely the mod. For the firing, you're saying it fired even when locked? if so, that puppy has to go back to Hcigar.DDolan said:I've written a more specific post before but now I just have to say I literally can't make it threw an 8 hour work day without this thing screwing up. And I'm literally doing NOTHING to change it. The damn resistance just changed while I had it locked! And I put it back in my pocket and it auto fired I smelt burning right away and when I took of the top cap the wick was wet! I just can't deal with this damn thing.
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Your clearly superior knowledge and intellect far beyond us plebs has won you a free assessment and Ebook: http://www.dalecarnegie.com/mobile/ebook/communicate-with-diplomacy-tact-assessment/ Congratulations! (P.S. -- I guess we're all guilty of tactlessness from time to time) (P.P.S. -- A 0 cell reading coupled with a 4.59V cell reading for a pack presumably not on fire at the moment leads me to believe there's more going on than the pack and perhaps it's not the pack at all. I freely admit I don't know exactly what that more is.)Ramrod said:The charger is correctly detecting a faulty battery or broken balance wire. Assuming the mod is accurately reading the cell Voltages then the battery IS effectively DEAD. DO NOT under any circumstances attempt to "recovery charge" a LiPo cell that is discharged to 0 Volts without learning a LOT more about LiPo batteries. Any decent charger won't let you unless you cheat and set it to the wrong battery type, and if you could then A FIRE is the most likely result. An explosion is also a distinct possibility. Even assuming you were successful that cell will have been damaged and the battery will constantly try to go out of balance. For the price of fitting a replacement battery why take such risks. If you don't understand something so commonly known to be dangerous VapingBad why would you give any advice at all regarding the battery. If you do understand the dangers then you should realise that it is not the sort of advice to give out randomly without any warnings.
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My first guess is it's the charger or cable. If the charger is cycling on and off, the DNA will do that. Do you have a known good 5 Watt brick to try?West84 said:I've noticed that the display constantly lights on and off while mod is on charger. Does anybody knows what could be the problem? Mod is Hcigar VT200
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Vaping Bad, is something else wrong too? Cell three at 4.59V. I haven't broken any of mine (yet lol) so not familiar with failure modes but would guess the voltage divider for reading the cell taps is toast in some way?
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reganbranch said:
that didn't help. I'm not saying there's something wrong with my battery, it's just a small battery and doesn't last long at all.
Top up the charge often (says captain obvious lol). It is rare that I'm far away from some USB power source. Do you find you can't top it up frequently? -
Podunk Steam said:
Yeah, I've never heard of those and the labeled specs likely would have been something I would just ignored. Sad the way higher end names or statements of better quality can often be nothing but a farsity. Just had a customs pay extra for a higher resolution 3D print. It sounds as though the print company changed the orientation of the print to lower the prints production time and totally jacked up my customers print. Today's market place can be frustrating as hell especially when you have third party software and every other lame cop out to fall back to gain a flipping profit. No graphs or anything on the batteries you've mentioned though I'd imagine?
No graphs. It's just a Chinese wrap of one of the big battery house batteries from apparently one of the better grade sort barrels. The info they did provide is a fantasy. Anyway, I'm sure the discharge curve is just an IMR or IMR hybrid. I'm not really into the battery end so my assessment is they don't seem to want to explode and last a while before needing a charge -- good enough lol.
As a point of reference, they do seem to perform better than my 25Rs -- the 25Rs do get warm and I don't remember exactly what I get out of them but time wise it's less vaping. Although as mentioned, how do I know the 25Rs are genuine lol. I did buy the 25Rs from "reputable" vendors but they get duped too. -
bilboda said:
Interesting read that leads me to a question from James' comment about wire size and power.
How would one determine that there wire is undersized for the set power? I have 26, 28 and 30 gauge.
Outside of there own native resistance, should I expect any different behavior from each wire?
And a comment.
We take a device designed to measure temperature through resistance changes in a single wire with known, reliable coefficients and decide to use complex builds of home wrapped wire in single, dual, quad, etc. coils whose coefficient can only be measured in theory for a perfectly built wire, and you aren't making those.
There have to be imperfections in the build, there always are and when you take that straight clapton wire and shape it into a coil, you are introducing new imperfections. And you are not considering the heat sinking that has to occur with the different wires/resistances. No matter what curve you use, it would be blind luck that you will get one that matches your custom wire. Not to mention the changes it goes thru during use and over time.
A Temp Lock cannot be done if your temp cannot be determined.
Stick with what is known and you will be fine, for the most part. Experiment at your own risk, but it will be no one's fault but your own if that does not work well
As another perspective, the gauge of the wire determines its surface area and thus the volume of juice it can flash boil at a set temperature. A wire is undersized for an amount of power if basically the heat per area exceeds an amount typically "known" to produce an acceptable result with wick and juice. Steam engine will give you that calculation and display whether from the result a build will be "hot." Thinner wire heats less surface area and so can produce acceptable vape with less power than a thicker wire which will produce more vapor with more power. Thin wire with more power will either be temp limited or, if not temp protected, burn the juice and wick. The opposite is true for thick wire. Not enough power for the surface area makes a weak vape. It's just a function of total heat (power) distributed over the surface area in contact with juice.
Clapton wires are interesting because that idea was a clever invention (I believe from the mech crowd) to increase wire surface area without overly decreasing resistance as with just a thicker wire, so it would work on a mech. It also self wicks some juice (although this is just more surface area in contact with juice, so it behaves as a wire even thicker than its diameter).
Every conducting metal composition has a TCR regardless of thickness or shape, and for making a wire and building it into a coil, as long as the build is stable, the average temperature of the entire length can be determined by its change in resistance (with a known starting temp). This is true regardless of the thickness or length of the wire.
Clapton wires are no exception. They can be unstable, but for the most part are not. The key is to make them so the final result has no resistance change caused by thermal movement. Given I can do it, I conclude it isn't hard to do lol. The average temp delivered may not match an exact predicted set temp for some of the reasons you mention, but it will be consistent and repeatable, not to mention surprisingly close to predicted.
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Tommo said:
By setting the times to display to 0? Mine is set to 1 now and i'm happy with that. Still not sure that it is an error mind, mors status.
In the theme tab at the temp protected screen, use the drop down to select "show temperature" or "don't show."
I agree that the default of a flashing message doesn't really make sense. -
Podunk Steam said:
I generally like a little more head space but my thoughts have been the Samsung 30Q could be a nice battery for a 133 watt build. HG2s have been pretty much neck and neck with the Q other than voltage favored to the Qs, this is why I thought they might be just a shade better.
Any thoughts?
I'm using BestKalint (who? what?) I got at Fastech for about 5 bucks a pop. The description says 20A continuous, 40A peak, 2,800 mAh (and a partridge in a pear tree). They will definitely do 20A "continuous" (chain vape timing of "continuous") without getting warm and I get about 2,300 mAh, even at the high discharge rates we use.
One thing about high end batteries is it is hard (for me at least) to tell if they're genuine, so I went with a pig in a poke brand no one has ever heard of figuring if they tested unacceptably below the stated description I could return them. -
QF 5.25 is . . . 133 mm. Maybe call it the QF 133 (they made mark I and mark II models -- so there's 2 names right there lol).
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Podunk Steam said:
Me, myself and I just can't come to terms on a portion of the build so I thought I might ask for opinions. I'm going to powder coat the stripes outside the 1 in a fade from blue at the bottom to red at the top and the 1 will be powder coated white.
The other areas are where I'm struggling with, black powder coating would make for a great contrast and bring out the red white and blue although it would involve a four bake process with the powder coating that stresses me a little. The off side is a potential finger print magnet with the powder I have.
Raw polished aluminum with an automotive epoxy based clear coat sounds nice too although the clear over the powder coat seems a bit off. Again another finger print magnet but maybe not as bad as the black.
There has also been the thought of jeweling these areas like is often done on the exposed areas of rifle bolts. This might be a bit gaudy but I do like the way it refracts light which could be lost with a clear coat. May be less likely to show finger prints and sticky fingered women could be a potential issue.
Your only solution is to make several lol. -
I understand what you're doing and I think it's a great idea. I have something similar in mind also.
What I plan to do is monitor the DNA output connection through an analog input on my processor (I use PIC chips but most processors these days have analog inputs). On a PIC at least, the input impedance of an analog input is ~= 10 KOhm. A voltage divider with that impedance to an analog input would allow the processor to "test" the DNA mode (like fire for a few mS -- as much as will get past the DNA debounce -- and see if the DNA output has a voltage consistent with "fire" on it) and determine if it was locked or not, and the high input impedance would not have any effect on the DNA resistance measurements. This would prevent the processor from getting out of sync with the DNA for having all controls through the processor.
One issue is the new coil up / down question which is a bit of a wild card and the software would have to be able to deal with that -- I haven't decided how to handle that yet. That is a third "mode" that's not locked but not unlocked. I guess the software could test to see if it can toggle between lock/unlock and if neither gets any fire voltage, then it's likely in new-coil-question mode (or maybe low battery or maybe shorted or . . . more testing needed).
Another advantage of PIC chips are their small size and cost and the ability to scale up if needed. A 1K word eight pin processor with on chip A to D needs a few square mm of space and costs about 50 cents in reasonable quantities. 1K of program space is way more than enough to run the DNA controls. The next increment would be 4K . . . up to hundreds of K. They have midrange chips with USB so you can dispense with most of the button stuff (still need the FIRE button control). If you want to get really crazy, they also have chips with integrated LCD control and capacitive touch inputs for a few dollars each -- the sky is the limit for the human interface. -
That will work. Thanks!John said:There's a 3.5 volt test pad on the board you could tie into. Be aware that when the device is hard sleeping (after an hour or so unplugged) it will turn off. Pressing the fire button or connecting USB will turn it back on.
If you have the board oriented with the fire button at the top and the taps at the bottom, it is the round test pad just above the UP tactile switch on the right edge of the board.
For ground, use the B- pad, the output ground or any of the mounting holes. Anything except the GND tap.
Hope that helps
John -
fostac said:
Did you ever figure this out?
You're correct that picking up from a cell on the balancing connector would unbalance the battery unless you juggled all 3 cells. It doesn't make sense for me to put a regulator on the board I'm trying to power if there is already a regulator onboard the DNA 200 for the IC.
I'm waiting on a fuse for my board so I can't probe around, but this thread mentions a jumper and then power for an LED fire button. This or something similar might work?
Haven't poked around on it yet. I was hoping someone would know a convenient spot. I suspect finding the supply to the processor won't take much time but I don't relish soldering to a fine pitch pin if it can be easily avoided. -
bingbling said:
Right, so I don't have access to those kinda testbeds john is talking about. The thread you linked suggests air cooled coils, so quad coils with 24gauge should be able to handle the heat from 50watts.
Something like this? They should barely get warm, if at all. What do you think about that?
If you just use a big circular loop of thick wire in free air, it doesn't get that hot. Making a coil reduces cooling efficiency and allows heat transfer from loop to loop. If you have 24, try twisting 3 or 4 strands (what will fit in your atty) into one large circular loop.
VaporShark 2A charging and escribe
in EScribe, Software and Firmware
Posted
I think many readily available, small multicell charger chips are 1A. There's a limit to what can be crammed on the board before it gets too big.