Asmodeus

The minkin actually displays both batteries, and on the spot voltage. (You can watch the meters sag) But this chip uses a step up. So even when they are low and saggin' baggin' Mary. It just pumps it back up until it can't. Which is when the battery meter tells you that's all she wrote. And since it's just feeding cell voltage out. You can really see this coming. (Unlike the DNA, where it's programmed as watt hours) However, the minikin can get those cells down to 3.3v or lower before it's time to swap them out. And it will absolutely give you the same battery warning message when it hits that point. I fear it may be connection related. Mainly due to the fact that I bought 20+ 18650's in the last 2 months and they all essentially suck in this mod.

That stuff ain't cheap. But we did it the dirty way. You can run up to 30% toluene, or xylene in gasoline. (And if you're smart you can get it for disposal if you write an affidavit conforming to regulations about burning it at a specific temperature through a catalyst from a lab. FOR FREE) Which, have a higher specific gravity than gasoline, and a very high octane. It also settles down a lopey idle giving the car a more mellow sound since it doesn't have to work as hard to burn the stuff. So the car actually sounded tamer than it was.

Specific gravity race fuel. Or a radioactive isotope. If he had said C-16, I would have gotten it instantly.

My kanthal power limit is set to 167. It won't take 2.35v you're correct. It changes it to 2.34v. But it let me upload that. And it gives me check battery warnings less. I'm using TC. Preheat 120W, falling down to 85W. I had this around 7 for punch. But the more I lower it. The less I get battery warnings. I don't actually enjoy a screaming hot vape. Temps vary between 425-470 dep on mood. I'm certain it's not correct due to wire construction and the profile loaded have to be off considering I'm using coils with anywhere from 4 wires in different thicknesses and sometimes two completely different types of clapton wire interspaced, or twisted SS in between fused clapton. The only thing that's accurate is it's all 316L. On the minikin I used TCR. On the DNA I think I am using the actual CSV for 316L from DJLSB's site. One cell definitely drops harder than the other if memory serves. A few tenths of a volt. "Stuff" is epoxied down in the case at this point though. I did not drill the enclosure for the mounting screws, and both the board and battery sled "are where they are". My packaging constraints required me to flip orientation from the diagram to wire it I found online. But essentially I have the tapped lead coming from the top of the sled, and the vast majority coming from the bottom so the wires are very very short. I bridged the two pins req with a solid bit of wire and soldered it in place then brought the other wire through and joined it all. Using the max gauge silicone wire from the chart made getting the entire bundle on the pad entirely impossible. Even tinning the pads a little extra was still a process of sticking it down and trying to neatly heap the joint. Which I am not very good at admittedly. I'm a little eskeerd of turning up the temps a lot and then switching batteries and blowing my face off. It will re-check on a battery swap and if it's already warm, it goes nuclear.

I also tried rebuilding this to about .20. It's a dual coil. 316L fused clapton, 9 wrap, contact, built on a tool and I took care they were very neat. This was far worse than my dual wire style coils clocking in at .09. It seems like TC totally hates them. No issues on the minikin firing these in TC. I'm thinking that the sample accuracy of the DNA in TC is very high, and the minikin probably is lower which allows there to be some variation and still "work just fine". I need a way to test this. So again, let's just assume that I know absolutely nothing, and did everything wrong. Where do I start?

I've been at this for a little while now with a DNA 250 chip in 2 cell 18650 mode. I built it in an alpinetech P+ box, with a battery sled and board holder from their store. I used silicone wire of the largest gauges from the chart I could manage, with a varitube V2 510 connector. It's really crammed in there but I taped over my joints in the tray to be triple sure to prevent any kind of shorting on the case. (even though they were recessed enough it shouldn't have been an issue) I have individual cell reporting in escribe. I set up my profiles and loaded one for 316L. I set up my mod resistance and subtracted just a little. I haven't made an elaborate wire loop to do battery tests. I've been having 2 issues. 1. Check battery when the pack voltage gets low. And low for me is 3.8v each... This is likely due to sag tripping the voltage alarm. And there's plenty of sag. Depending on the set of batteries anywhere from .6v to 1v. I have set the soft cut limit to 2.35v to try to get it to leave me alone. But on a cold start up. Where the mod and atomizer is cool to the touch. I still encounter it and it won't fire. 2. The mod goes to sleep and when it wakes back up it won't deliver a normal vape. I changed the screen to display voltage and I can see the problem. (This is in TC mode) It's putting out 1-2v or less. If you pop the battery out, and back in, it will then typically come back on full power and then some delivering either a fairly typical vape or a little extra which is borderline hot hot hot. It seems like power mode works just fine. I've tried to change the mod resistance to trick the device into thinking it was one way or the other with no success. When it cools and re-reads the resistance I think this was a dead end. I have purchased batteries 2x now. I had been running 30Q's and HB2's and some Sony and purchased fresh pairs when I got the DNA. I have had nothing but issues with the check battery and not getting a serviceable life out of any of them. So I bought LG HB6's and VTC5a's with much higher drain limits thinking they might sag less under load and let me get some kind of life out of them. I hit the check battery limit still, though slightly less often. (I have VTC5's and they did better than 30Q's, so I went with higher drain batteries) I had been running a fairly large dual wire (two separate clapton wires / in the same coil x2) clocking in around .09. If I put this on my minikin it just fires and works. If I put any of the batteries with any of the atomizers in any configuration over .08 on the minikin it just works. It doesn't matter if they are contact coils, spaced, batteries low. IT JUST WORKS. So let's assume it's something I am not doing right, something I didn't solder well enough. Or there is an issue I need to track down here. What is the likely issue if there is heavy battery sag? The supply wire from the battery on the chip + pad? If TC is essentially useless after a full cool down, what is the likely cause? I just need a fresh set of eyes before I chuck this out of a window.

Yeah, I know. My struggle with this DNA build is multi-faceted. I kinda want my battery meter to be remotely useful if it does work better with these batteries though! What is your sag under load? Are you using TC or no?

I'm trying higher amperage drain rated batteries to see if I can shake out my issues. Does anyone have the discharge profile for either of these? The VTC5a's are 25A (listed as 2600mah) the HB6's are 30-32A. The pink versions are supposedly slightly better than the ivory HB6's. (Listed as 1500mah) I'm firing fairly large 316L SS coils around .06-.09ohm and as soon as the pack voltage drops a little it starts choking with (new) 30Q's, HG2's, etc. Typically anything under 7.8v is a toss up and I'm not getting a useable life out of anything I put in it. I have VTC5's and they do ever so slightly better. Battery life is atrocious, especially when you are only getting into the top 1/2-1/3rd of the cells useable life. I've tried .15-.3Xohm coils as well and still have issues when I crank up the power to compensate.

Where is that? I switched my "set profile" to pack voltage and I really want this instead of a battery meter. If they could tuck the pack voltage horizontally into the spot of the battery meter I'd be tickled. I can see it out of the corner of my eye when I'm vaping and I would be able to see my sag voltage and easily tell when I'm about to hit the soft cut/low voltage limit and need to change batteries. God I wish this board had a step up...

I almost did that. I have 3 moonshot tins, and thought of sacrificing one to build a mod out of. Neat stuff!

Giving up on Ti, yup. Been there, done that. I recommend SS 316L. It is as easy or easier than kanthal and grants all the benefits of TC. I can taste titanium. It's springy and annoying, even twisted. And I can't burn it and clean it properly. So... it's annoying to work with, I can't clapton it, and I can't clean it... I immediately stopped wasting my time with it.

^ Agree. That thing needs connected to escribe. Options/User Interface/Manufacturer <--- Switch permissions to manufacturer, and then go to the research tab. There have to be some kind of parameters set, and if escribe connects to the board. It will download everything on the board and show you in escribe. If it's tripping the research mode screen then some parameter was set and needs cleared before it will do anything. Where did the board come from? This is the screen you want to look at.

I know exactly why you want to hit a ridiculous coil hard to cut ramp up. What I don't understand is why you want it to keep going like a mech. Are you trying to replicate the vaping feel of an unregulated device with the benefit of pre-fire? Could you not just set your temp control up as properly as you can, then turn the temperature up as high as you can stand? Then regulate the vaping experience with your finger? A quicker drag shouldn't hit full temp if it's set high enough. Repeated pulls will slowly escalate in temp up to where you cannot stand it. I fire things that are at the limit of what full (18650) batteries and the DNA can stand in TC mode every day. My cosmonaut has two different styles of 316L clapton wire alternating on each coil. (triple fused parallel, and some 26G traditional) It is not spaced, and I hit it with 120W to lift it up. My fall down wattage is 85W, and it frequently sits around 45-50W during repeated pulls once it's warm. I frequently hit the battery warning on an ice cold startup with even slightly depleted batteries from sag. I don't know what you're firing, but those coils clock in around .08XX. You maybe get 3-5 pulls and it needs a full dropper to be juiced again. If you want to plow through a 60ml bottle in a few days, they are IDEAL. Without temp control those would probably physically injure me around the 4 second mark, even with side and top airflow on that atomizer wide open. Is it possible that your device is not set up correctly, which is not allowing you to reach the temp / vape you want? The entire point of the DNA/regulated device (to me) is that I can do utterly stupid sh... stuff and not actually hurt myself. Why circumvent that when I think it will deliver what you want, and also stop when you reach what you can handle? No?

I don't "NEED" a gas gauge in my car either. I can just do my best to feel when the tank is getting low from the way the car handles a good bend at speed. But I deserve a functional one. One that doesn't care if I fill up at Sunoco, BP, Exxon, or perhaps even spike the tank with toluene. Tying the meter to battery voltage solves the problem in the simplest way possible. Set a simple voltage scale stretching between 4.2v and the discharge limit and let me select that instead. Two little bars a few pixels wide would go a long way to nudge the DNA up to the standard that we should expect from a chip these days. The chip alone costs more than a functional mod with these features. We shouldn't make excuses for mediocracy. In their quest to make an ultra customizable battery meter for LiPo's the simple solution for 18650's was entirely neglected.

I had the same issue. It's the soft cut limit. Same issues with a 120W preheat. Same issues with sag tripping the voltage nanny and shutting down the party.

I'm kinda seeing it like this... 1. The minikin v1.5 for $60 can nearly do what a DNA 167 can do. It's less BS, and has a better form factor. It suffers only in that the temp control is jerky, and my 510 loosened and I had to tighten it. 2. Conversely the DNA's temp control is buttery smooth. The initial battery setup and black sheeping of 18650 users leaves a lot to be desired. In fact the discharge profiles, and single meter is inherently poor by today's standards. The screen also leaves a lot on the table information/vs space wise. It's level of configuration that balances it out. But even building it all myself I have north of $130 in it. And these battery profiles and watt hours are inherently flawed in a device with replaceable batteries. Give me an option to set the meter to resting battery voltage and avoid that tangled mess. I have many different kinds of 18650 batteries. Both in age and type. I realize that the 18650 set up is an afterthought, but it exists. The baby is in the crib so to speak. So now that we are here, you gotta deal with it. And the way it is being crippled with 3S LiPo settings sucks. Two %'s would work. Stick the meter(s) to resting cell voltage. Watching it sag wouldn't hurt my feelings. And when I switch from 30Q's to VTC's I wouldn't need a friggin laptop... The DNA on 18650's is a Ferrari with a broken gas gauge. I don't need 250W's. But I would like my battery meter to work with whatever I pop in it... As of this very moment there are multiple threads about people hitting the soft cut limit on battery sag and not knowing what is causing the mod to not fire properly. How low can I go on the soft cut limit?

I'm in the same boat. I came from a v1.5 minikin that will fire just about anything so long as it's .08? or higher. You can watch the battery meters sag horrendously when you are north of 100W and firing things that low. But it WOULD fire without a change in the vape the whole way down until the batteries were down to about 3.2-3.3v IIRC. When I set up the DNA250/167. I set the cut off around 3.2V and all was OK for a little while. I noticed I was not able to run the batteries out as far and at times I would get a hesitation in power. I thought perhaps it was just not reporting correctly and they were really low. So I set the cut off to 3.5v. It got worse. When I put the batteries in the charger they were still showing 3.7v. Wait a damn second... I then realized what a SOFT cut off was. It wasn't a discharge limit. And I was slamming into it when the batteries sag. Mine sag just as hard. I have 16ga silicone wires feeding the board and 14ga for the output. I have LG's, Samsungs, and Sony's... and it makes no difference which ones are in there. I have 12 brand new pairs and some older ones and again, there is absolutely no difference. They all sag .6v. +/- .1v My question is where is my safety issue with voltage under load? If I want to vape the batteries down to the built in discharge limit. How low can I go? The board, and battery sled are taped and epoxied into the case at this point. It is, what it is, and I have lots of batteries. Is there a voltage under load threshold that I do not want to cross? The minikin v1.5 seemed to allow for the sag and just kept thumping away. Those batteries compared to new ones, even after being used for months like that. Honestly show no appreciable difference in life. I have a lot, and they are mated sets, and I rotate through them evenly. I am down to 2.7v in the soft cut limit and I still cannot empty a set of batteries before the DNA's voltage nanny steps in and annoys me to no end. I have the watt/hrs set lower than the recommended capacity for the batteries that I am using to boot. I really want to drop it to 2.5v or lower. (Which I think was the original setting when I switched to 2 battery mode in escribe) But I don't want to destroy batteries or blow myself up. If my sag is about .6v then I need it that much lower than the resting discharge limit. Is there any danger?

I saw mod sledz post a glow in the dark battery sled. In fact I could have sworn I was on some site and it was something I could pick in a drop down box, but after finding it once, I couldn't find it again. I really wanted to get a GITD board and battery holder. Then tuck a small UV LED in the case. That way throughout the day when I used it, it would charge all the guts so they'd glow when you opened the case in the dark. Like to change batteries. I know I saw those sleds. But I couldn't find them when it was time to build my alpinetech box. Which made me a little sad. I agree the red kinda clashes.

That's actually a nice touch. If it wasn't red.

Foul language, heavy smoking, and forced induction go hand and hand. I still have an Evo and the need to tinker with everything. But after smoking for 20Y, I haven't had a single one in over 3Y thanks to vaping. I am really enjoying the DNA 250 so far. I love this little Alpinetech P+ enclosure. And fellow gear heads are welcome company, always.

[goes WOT on a cold night] Yeeeeeesssssss... OMG!? As you pry your passengers face from the windshield and you both look at each other in stunned amazement wondering which insidious bastard dropped an anchor when you weren't looking? Unfortunately that is what the minikin's TC reminds me of... with some tuning you can avoid the wall of fun-lessness. Same as the cars...

I don't do nickel, and I don't like Ti either. But my fear of SS is 0%. Do what works for you. But realize that you are advocating methodology that removes the consistency of a seasoned coil based on studies that did not come to the conclusion that hexavalent chromium was released. But in parting had to make sure you knew it could be, maybe, if you weld with it... in an atomizer... I prefer scrubbing them with a tooth brush and whatever's left of a single drop of dried dawn dishwashing liquid, then doing some quick burn/rinse cycles. I also build for 2 people across a lot of devices and atty's. If I had to build coils every 2-4 days when I rewick and clean things I would shoot myself in the face. I also hate spaced coils because they are inconsistent (resistance) and I prefer to remember the approx resistance of every atty I touch because if it reads differently - then something is not right. It's not just my face on the other end of it, but someone I care about. They are also fiddly when you are trying to bang the crud off and get some new wicks in, say as you are about to walk out the door and it gets handed to you with the "hey before we go..." Utility is key, and I have found no performance benefit in spacing them. Simply annoyance. So in the end, I still disagree with you completely. But we do both agree on proper atomizer / coil maintenance being paramount. So cheers to that!

Used an alpinetech P+ box and built a 250/166 yesterday. I wanted something close in size to the minikin. Which, despite its fuel cut in a 90's turbo car TC, I like a lot. I bought a lipo too, so I may do another.

I've been vaping for almost 4 years now, but am not an expert. I only use 316L SS for the last year or so. I use a lot of triple core fused with a 36g wrapper. The diameter of the coil is about all I change, to suit the atomizers deck / packaging constraints of the atomizer. (wicking hole size, etc) I couldn't disagree more strongly with the spaced coils. Burning them and packing them until all hot spots are eliminated allows me to maintain a resistance on a coil for MONTHS. Even after burning and scrubbing them, and wicking them countless times. Spaced coils are just annoying to deal with in general. I built a DNA 250 box mod last night, loaded the CSV from steam engine, but as mentioned, Daniel from DJLSBvapes mentioned the TCR setting (.00092) was more accurate. I don't know if that holds true any more. But it worked with the stuff I was using on a different device. TCR on the DNA 250 was better than my previous mod. So perhaps I'm not seeing an issue across a broad spectrum because it's still new to me. But if it can light and TC a .08 dual wire / dual coil set up, basically on start up. I have no fear it's fine with just about anything I throw at it with just touching up the temperature here and there. I was within 15* of where I was on my other mod on the DNA and it was a better smoother vape and TC.