TC temp & Wattage w/ Crown III

[Karsten]

I'm a bit curious as to why there seems to be a discrepancy between TC and Watts on the Crown III 0.25Ohm Parallel SS316 Coil.  According to UWell the coil is recommended at 80W-90W in non-TC mode.  My TC is set to cap at 600F.  I'm currently using the coil in TC mode w/ an 80W punch @ 2sec set to 535F and while it jumps to 80W pre-heat when firing that immediately falls off to 40W (give or take a couple watts as it pulses) to maintain the 535F temp setting.  The materials curve is for straight SS316 (not 316L).

If this is correct - then what temp would this thing be running at if I switched it over to Wattage mode and set it to 80W continuous?  Also, why the huge discrepancy?

Edited July 20, 2017 by Karsten

[Karsten]

Actually - has anyone broken down a Crown II coil yet?  If so, what are the specs?  Does anyone know the correct values to load into Steam Engine?  # of wraps, spacing, gauge, etc?

Edited July 21, 2017 by Karsten

[Wayneo]

  On 7/21/2017 at 2:16 PM, Karsten said:

If so, what are the specs?  Does anyone know the correct values to load into Steam Engine?  # of wraps, spacing, gauge, etc?

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TC is material specific. NOT number of cores, build, or gauge. Just wire type. There's no value/need to complicate matters.

  On 7/20/2017 at 4:19 PM, Karsten said:

If this is correct - then what temp would this thing be running at if I switched it over to Wattage mode and set it to 80W continuous?  Also, why the huge discrepancy?

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Looking at the material profile of the wire, and the resistance change from base/cold ohms to 'while firing' you should be able to do some math gymnastics to find the answer.

[Karsten]

Gauge makes a difference in the TFR.

Actually, it all makes a difference in the TFR - to hit the correct resistance values for a specific temp you need to know the specs on the wrap.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Karsten

[Karsten]

Correct me if I'm wrong here - but my understanding is the TFR is used by the DNA200 to determine when it's hit the selected temperature by comparing the expected resistance (from the TFR) to the actual resistance being read during the firing. In which case, simply specifying the wire type isn't nearly enough to get an accurate curve...

[Wayneo]

  On 7/21/2017 at 3:30 PM, Karsten said:

but my understanding is the TFR is used by the DNA200 to determine when it's hit the selected temperature by comparing the expected resistance (from the TFR) to the actual resistance being read during the firing.

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That ^^ is correct

  On 7/21/2017 at 3:30 PM, Karsten said:

In which case, simply specifying the wire type isn't nearly enough to get an accurate curve...

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That ^^ is wrong. But who am I? So don't believe me. Go simulate build 2 different coils of your same wire type in Wire wizard, look at the res factor at different temps for each and compare, then come back and apologize.

[Karsten]

  On 7/21/2017 at 4:20 PM, Wayneo said:

That ^^ is wrong. But who am I? So don't believe me. Go simulate build 2 different coils of your same wire type in Wire wizard, look at the res factor at different temps for each and compare, then come back and apologize.

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Apologies.  My bad!

[Wayneo]

No worries, and I'm glad you went and proved it for yourself. 
TC is NOT the panacea some might think. I'll usually vape a new juice in Wattage mode before moving to TC. I have a minty watermelon juice that in TC I totally lose the mint at 420F.  And a peanut butter vape, where at certain temps the peanuts will taste burnt, not the whole juice, just the peanuts. But overall, TC will give you a consistent experience and no dry hits.
Enjoy your mod and TC. 

[Karsten]

I have the same issues with flavors in TC.  I prefer Ti coils over the SS for TC as they seem to provide a better flavor at temp than the SS does.  I've found some juices have a very narrow range of about 5 degrees F before some flavors really shine but push it another 5 degrees and a secondary flavor in the same juice starts tasting burnt (as you mentioned).

Sometimes the only way to go is wattage with Kanthal though.

However, I'm still a bit flummoxed by the new Crown III coils - I've done the math and unless I'm missing something big (like a logarithmic increase in resistance above a certain temp) it seems to me that running between 80W-90W (as recommended) puts the temp well into the danger range where eJuice starts to breakdown into nasty chemicals.  Normally I sent my temps all below 500 but this is the first coil where I've pushed it above that in an attempt to determine the difference between TC and watts and the resulting vape.

[Wayneo]

  On 7/21/2017 at 8:06 PM, Karsten said:

I prefer Ti coils over the SS for TC as they seem to provide a better flavor at temp than the SS does

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I also use Ti01, but only when I can get at the screws easily as mine tend to loosen quickly. Although I prefer SS430 for quicker ramp up, I'm thinking of sticking to 316 only because of availability in different gauges, and not having to remember what material type is in each atty. I find SS a cleaner taste or should I say tasteless.

  On 7/21/2017 at 8:06 PM, Karsten said:

running between 80W-90W (as recommended) puts the temp well into the danger range where eJuice starts to breakdown into nasty chemicals. 

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Well, that magic number, according to evolv IIRC is 470F, before 'bad' starts occurring. 

[Karsten]

  On 7/21/2017 at 8:21 PM, Wayneo said:

Well, that magic number, according to evolv IIRC is 470F, before 'bad' starts occurring. 

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Exactly. Which is why I'm curious about what I seem to be missing. If it's only taking 40-50W to maintain a temp of 470F...