Uwell Crown Tank - Stainless Coil - TCMode

[mojodiscontinuity]

First of all, greetings. This is my first DNA200 device (HCigar VT200) and thus my first foray into EScribe Software customization and also my first post in this forum.

I apologize if this question has already been asked (or if there is a better place to post this question in), but my searches came up dry.

I'm trying to set up Temperature Control for the Pre-built Uwell Crown Stainless Steel coils, particularly the 0.25 ohm ones on my DNA200.

Since I don't really know the exact coil dimensions to input into the new Wire Wizard, I attempted to generate a .CSV for "DNA200 Output" using the "old" TCR calculator:

http://www.steam-engine.org/tcr.asp

The following options were used/selected:

• Temperature points (default): -100,0,70,200,400,600,800
• Select wire(s): SS 316L / Elite (TFR)
• Resistance: 0.275 ohms (Top reading of the Atomizer Analyzer)

This was the DNA200 output that I downloaded into a .CSV file:

"Temperature (degF)","Electrical Resistivity"
-100,0.894808435072142
0,0.9588476571924915
70,1
200,1.0721420643729191
400,1.1702552719200887
600,1.2568175278497145
800,1.335482796892342

Which I loaded as a custom material onto my DNA200 via Escribe.

As for the Profile settings they are as follows:

• Power: 120 W
• Temperature: 500 degF
• Ohms Locked: 0.275 ohms
• Preheat Power: 130 W
• Preheat Punch: 4
• Preheat Time Limit: 1s

Perhaps it's working as it should, but it seems to me that it never hits the high watts like it does in non TC mode.

In fact it seems to hit weaker than one of my DNA40 mods in Nickel TC mode.

If anyone can give me pointers on what I may be doing wrong or if there's a better way to configure/set my DNA200 to hit 120 watts on Uwell 0.25 ohm SS coil with TC protection to offset burnt/dry hits, it would be greatly appreciated.

UPDATE: I manually set the temp at the max 600F and the power at 200 Watts. Although the temperature protection kicks in at around 70 to 90 watts (or so), it definitely provides a strong hit for the tank. I can set the temp lower if I want a cooler vape. Although I have my doubts as to the accuracy of the actual temperature, it's much closer to what I want it to do. I'm keeping the Preheat Punch at 120 since that the "max" watts the coil is rated for. Still, if anyone has any insight on how I can make this more accurate, I'd love to hear from anyone else who has had any degree of success with the EScribe settings.

UPDATE 2: If the rest of the thread responses are "TL;DR" for you I wound up using the TFR for 304 Stainless Steel, and it seems to work the best with the Uwell Crown SS coils in Temperature Control Mode. The input variables on the steam engine site are mostly for pre-planning a build. If you are only using only one wire material, the TFR should remain constant.

Go into the Wire Wizard page, Select "DNA200", click the desired wire material in the drop down (In my case SS 304), then "Download TFR Table as CSV". That CSV can then be Loaded as "Coil Material: Custom" in one of the profiles.

[blueridgedog]

Perhaps give the new calculator a try? http://www.steam-engine.org/wirewiz.asp

[mojodiscontinuity]

It looks like the new Wire Wizard is geared towards coil building, and unfortunately I don't have the exact measurements and numbers of the Uwell Crown Coils to enter into it to get the proper TCR settings for that coil for the DNA200/EScribe software. I might be able to approximate the right TCR based on the Atomizer analyzer reading, and play with the numbers so that it matches the "rest/room temperature" resistance.

Originally, I wasn't sure if the Inner diameter, Number of wraps, Leg length and Wrap spacing, etc. ultimately had any bearing on the final TFR result, but I entered the information in 3 different ways (Wire, Parallel and Clapton), mostly "fine tuning" the "Number of Wraps", the AWG and/or the mm Diameter to make sure ultimately that the final resistance matched as close as possible what was being read by the DNA200 board and the EScribe software (0.275 ohm) all for SS316 wire, the final TFR numbers all came out identically.

I then went back and punched in the same info. The temperature points were different, so I made sure they were identical in both the old and the new calculators, and the results again were identical. The main difference between the old and the new calculator is the availability of different wire materials. The old one in particular, is missing "regular" SS 316 and only has "Elite/SS 316L" which appears to be a "special/proprietary" wire made by Gplat, so it will have different material properties and TFRs than the regular 316 Stainless Steel. 

I'm going to try the regular SS 316 and cross my fingers that the presence/absence of the "L" (to make the steel alloy less corrosive) will be negligible in terms of Temperature control. My DNA 200 is charging off a 2 Amp adapter and is nearing full charge so I can start working on it once that's done. I'll try importing the new TFRs for 316 stainless and see if it makes a difference in the TC, vape quality and temperature accuracy on the DNA200.

I'll be sure to come back and post my findings...

[steamer861]

This interest me I just ordered a Crown and I would like to try and rebuild the coil heads myself.
I know you can get an RBA section, I find with my sub tanks rebuilding there coil head works better.
Does anyone here use SS wire? Were is a good place to buy some 316 SS wire.
Is 316 a good choice? what gauge is good to use for SS wire?
any help is appreciated  Thanks in advance  

[VapingBad]

I read on UKV that Brandon was working on a TCR for these as the legs are Ni200 link and more info on redit

[mojodiscontinuity]

I didn't know about the Nickel Legs on the Uwell Coils, that will probably change the resistance properties, I guess we will eventually get TFRs straight from the coil manufacturers, so we won't have to "guesstimate" like I've been trying to do to get TC mode to work on the Uwell Crown tank coils.

So here's my findings thus far, The TFR for coils made of one material will be the same regardless of all other settings, so you can just go straight to the Wire Wizard, change the drop down to the desired coil material, click "DNA200", leave everything else at the default values, then click "Download TFR Table as CSV." With that said, the wire wizard is there to help calculate the resistance and the TFRs of 2 different material wires, like a parallel or clapton coil build using separate Nickel and Kanthal wires.

The .CSV file can be loaded into a DNA 200 profile using EScribe. I also learned that the steel used in the Uwell coils is actually 304 SS and not 316L, at least according to D. Jaquith, who made a guest appearance on The Vapor Chronicles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVSRLPgD7GY  

Using the 304 SS TFR in the DNA200 for the "0.25 ohm" Crown Coil. I was able to get a better vape at a higher Temperature cutoff compared to the 316 SS TFR. Anecdotally speaking, I felt I had to set the temperature to the max 600F when I was using the 316 SS TFR on the DNA200/Uwell Coil, while the 304 SS was much closer to the DNA40/Nickel performance. When I set it to 600 F, the vape was hot, but not unbearably so.

If anyone wants to try TC with a Uwell SS coil on a DNA200, IMHO the 304 SS TFR is the way to go, at least until Uwell releases a "custom" TFR, or when vaping hobbyists and/or bloggers start using equipment and recording data on these coils and starts sharing the info with the rest of the vaping community.

[pdizzle]

I use atlantis nickel coils and didn't even mess with anything in escribe thinking it was for building coils lol.

[mojodiscontinuity]

pdizzle said:

I use atlantis nickel coils and didn't even mess with anything in escribe thinking it was for building coils lol.

Temperature control for Nickel coils is ready out of the box for the DNA200, and the vast majority of sub ohm tanks in the market like the Aspire Atlantis/Atlantis2/Triton have prebuilt nickel coils available for TC.

Although getting a "dry hit" is much less of a concern on tanks because of the near constant juice feed, it can happen with thicker/higher ratio VG juices and higher wattages when the wicking cannot keep up, or if you are just not paying attention to the liquid level on your tank.

For tanks, TC is used primarily for "safety" (Above 600F is where e-liquid breaks down into the nasty/toxic compounds like formaldehyde), but some vapers simply max the power/wattage settings on their devices and adjust the temperature to where they want it to suit their personal vaping preference.

With that said, Uwell also has nickel coils available for the Crown tank TC, but at the highest settings for the DNA200 which is 200 watts and 600F, the vapor starts tasting weird, personally speaking. Most YiHi SX 3(xx) Series devices keeps Nickel coils restricted at 50 Joules (though some can go up to 100 Joules if you are using Titanium coils and have a dual 18650 Battery mod). The two Sigelei TC mods go up to 75 and 150 for the single and dual 18650 battery mods respectively and the JoyETech VT goes up to 60W in TC.

For me personally about 40-80 watts is the "sweet spot" for nickel coil tanks in TC mode depending on the tank, e-liquid, mod etc, and there's really no reason, for me at least, to ever go above 90 watts using nickel.

For coil builders Titanium is starting to gain popularity for TC, as more devices, particularly the YiHi SX 3(xx) ones support Titanium in TC mode either out of the box or with a firmware update. DNA200 can of course support any type of wire, including Kanthal, given the proper TFR inputs, but you need to know how to use the EScribe software to even have that option, and you will lose TC accuracy with certain wire types, particularly with Kanthal wire because of its inherent properties.

I set up profiles for SS-304, SS-316, Ti-01 and Ni-200, and a "regular" power mode on my DNA200. IMHO, these modes should be ready out of the box and the "custom" settings should be reserved for dual/hybrid wire builds. Perhaps in a future update.

[pdizzle]

So you do 40 to 80 watts @ 600 degree?

[mojodiscontinuity]

pdizzle said:

So you do 40 to 80 watts @ 600 degree?

It depends on the coil and tank and how you vape. For the Atlantis, I'd personally go around 50-70 watts and go between 400 and 500F depending on the eliquid. For you you can start as high as you want and adjust down if it starts dry hitting.

[pdizzle]

Thanks I think I found my happy spot at 480f @ 62.5w

[cdrice15]

VapingBad said:

I read on UKV that Brandon was working on a TCR for these as the legs are Ni200 link and more info on redit

[cdrice15]

Has there been any new development on the crown stock ss coils?

[mojodiscontinuity]

None that I'm aware of.

 

Still, the Steam Engine TFR for 304 Stainless Steel has been working beautifully for the crown SS coils in the DNA200 TC Mode.

I'm not sure were the previous poster got the information about "Nickel Legs" in the crown coils (a link to the source info would be nice), but from the coil tear downs I have seen thus far on YouTube, they seem to be made of one single material.

EDIT: There actually is a link posted by VapingBad with more info in the UK Vapers Forum. I'll repost it here for convenience:

http://ukvapers.org/Thread-New-DNA200-mod?pid=1400866#pid1400866

Also, if I come across a YouTube vaper that runs an actual oscilloscope test on the DNA200 using SS_304 such as pbusardo or DJLSB Vapes, I'll post the video here.

[Mad Scientist]

mojodiscontinuity said:

None that I'm aware of.

 

Still, the Steam Engine TFR for 304 Stainless Steel has been working beautifully for the crown SS coils in the DNA200 TC Mode.

I'm not sure were the previous poster got the information about "Nickel Legs" in the crown coils (a link to the source info would be nice), but from the coil tear downs I have seen thus far on YouTube, they seem to be made of one single material.

EDIT: There actually is a link posted by VapingBad with more info in the UK Vapers Forum. I'll repost it here for convenience:

http://ukvapers.org/Thread-New-DNA200-mod?pid=1400866#pid1400866

Also, if I come across a YouTube vaper that runs an actual oscilloscope test on the DNA200 using SS_304 such as pbusardo or DJLSB Vapes, I'll post the video here.

I have several lab quality Tektronix 'scopes with both single ended and differential front end amps. Input impedances from 50 ohm to virtually infinite. Bandwidths from "DC to daylight." If someone wants to send me some wire and list whatever tests you want done on DNA200, I'd be willing to do them.

[Powerman]

So where is the information on the Crown SS coils coming from? Because everything Uwell puts out says the tank is SUS 304, and the coils are SUS 316. I've seen a couple people say 304 but those were assumptions or non existent standards... Like saying all "food grade D" is 304. No such designation exists. Not a lot have mentioned Nickle legs, but some reputable folks here say so. Are Nickle legs a "common" thing in general? I have no clue. Anyway, I just wish I knew for sure. Seems a 304 TCR seems to work well... Big picture we are talking of a 50F temp error. I tried doing burn tests, but that isn't exactly accurate. In fact, seems the 304 TCR had a higher temp... For burn than the 316 which makes no sense. If it was actually 316, and I used a 304 TCR, then the temp of burn should have been lower than say 400F. So I was rather disappointed I couldn't get a more conclusive test. So what's the deal?

[jj6404]

Hey guys. So I've tried the steam engine csv for ss316, ss304 like you guys suggested, and another one from the dna200 themes Facebook page that just said "uwell crown". With each one of them all I get is varying degrees of weak, prematurely cut vapes on the crown with the 0.25 SS dual coil coil heads. Even at the temp at max 600 F and the wattage at 75, just weak, short airy vapes that are nothing like the dense flavorful vapes I get at 60 watts on straight power mode. Anyone figure this out yet? For those of you who are saying the 304 csv is working well for you, what exact settings on your device do you have? Also, I love the vape on power mode at 60 watts and airflow either full open or the click right under full open.

[Powerman]

All the TCRs are just numbers right? 316 is 91. Well 0.00091. 304 is 0.001016. Well, the TCR in Steam Engine is 1016. I've seen 316 at 880, 304 at 1016. I've seen some use 1050. So you can do a TCR of what ever you want use what ever works best. Just understand, that regardless of what number you use, it has to be accurate to the real world. If it is 316, and you use the TCR for 430 (0.00155) then you set a temp of 400...well actual temp is going to be much hotter. Most people using Crown coils are using 304 TCR of 100. 100-105. (0.00105) So you can do that to compensate for the nickle legs. But you have done that, and if you have to go much over that, then it's wrong. Something isn't right.

[Scottericsonon]

I'm currently running the .25 coil in one of my crown tanks with the ss304 (the steam engine one) download... My current settings are 460F, 200w preheat and 120 watts (although your preheat/wattage numbers shouldn't matter as long as you have them high enough) and it's (IMO) VERY comparable to the vape I get at 60 watts in straight power mode... I'd look to maybe something is loose or you just have a bum coil if these settings don't work for you

[jj6404]

I've tried the 304 from steam engine, tried the "crown" one from Facebook. They both sucked for me. So I did a custom and just put in 0.00105 for the tcr like you said and and 65 watts 80watt preheat and 550 degrees it's very close to the straight power at 60 watts that I love but sometimes it still feels airy and cuts prematurely. How can you have your wattage set that high with the crown ?? I had one profile set with the 304 from steam engine I believe but with 200 preheat, 540 degrees, 65 watts and one hit fried my coil head. It gave me the nastiest dry hit obviously.

[Powerman]

What box are you running? Do a burn test. You can put what ever TCR in and get it where you like, but you have no clue what actual temp is. Do a burn test to see if you are in the ball park.

[jj6404]

Hcigar VT200

[Powerman]

Is your box resistance set?

[jj6404]

Yes. To 0.0045. In other news, I have a spaced 24g SS 316L build working pretty nice with a tcr that I input of 0.001. I know someone said 0.00094 is 316 but when I tried to put that in it said minimum was 0.001

[Powerman]

Exactly. 105 works cause it bigger than 0.001,but who knows if it rounds off. Go over to general and I have a thread about the VS and VT200. The short answer is I have both and my VT200 does not hit as hard as my VS and it's 50 degrees higher with same profile. Close but not the same.