TI1 & KA1 clapton build

[Milkweed]

So I claptoned a 32g KA1 wire around a 26g TI1 wire. I saw a post somewhere on this build. I did 7 wraps over 2.7mm ID dual on my TFV4 clocking in at 0.24ohms cold. Got onto steam engine, parallel, clapton on both, input all the figures in but the resistance came out to 0.16ohms. Should i be using this to upload into my mod? Cause I did and the temp was way off compared to my full Ti build. Tank got rather hot after a couple of puffs. I thought it would be rather dangerous to continue. What am I doin wrong? Should i wrap TI1 over KA1 instead? Should i adjust the numbers on steam engine such that i get the same resistance as my build? Appreciate if someone could shed some light. Pretty sure other users are looking into this too. Thanks.

[Mad Scientist]

I've used dual claptons wrapped as you describe. I found that the TCR is lower than just plain Ti. You may need to adjust your TCR down by about 0.0005. I would not make any adjustments to actual cold resistance (it is what it is). If you're sure its running too hot on a stable build, reducing the TCR will reduce the temp. Steam engine is pretty good but not always perfect, and the exact wire you have may differ from what steam engine thinks both in resistance per length and TCR. Also keep in mind that a good set of claptons will tend to produce a hotter vape.

[Milkweed]

Mad Scientist said:

I've used dual claptons wrapped as you describe. I found that the TCR is lower than just plain Ti. You may need to adjust your TCR down by about 0.0005. I would not make any adjustments to actual cold resistance (it is what it is). If you're sure its running too hot on a stable build, reducing the TCR will reduce the temp. Steam engine is pretty good but not always perfect, and the exact wire you have may differ from what steam engine thinks both in resistance per length and TCR. Also keep in mind that a good set of claptons will tend to produce a hotter vape.

Let me get this right. So if my TCR was 0.006 I have to bring it down to 0.001 or just 0.005? And I think you mean 0.005 as the range is only 0.001-0.01. I also noticed in the temperature control results equivalents tab, it mentioned "To match it on a mod set to Titanium 1, adjust the temperature to ~210°C or ~410°F." and so I did. Seems a lot better than before. It was at 450F previously. What is this Equivalents tab suppose to be for? Oh....and thanks for the help.

[Mad Scientist]

Milkweed said:

[QUOTE=Mad Scientist]I've used dual claptons wrapped as you describe. I found that the TCR is lower than just plain Ti. You may need to adjust your TCR down by about 0.0005. I would not make any adjustments to actual cold resistance (it is what it is). If you're sure its running too hot on a stable build, reducing the TCR will reduce the temp. Steam engine is pretty good but not always perfect, and the exact wire you have may differ from what steam engine thinks both in resistance per length and TCR. Also keep in mind that a good set of claptons will tend to produce a hotter vape.

Let me get this right. So if my TCR was 0.006 I have to bring it down to 0.001 or just 0.005? And I think you mean 0.005 as the range is only 0.001-0.01. I also noticed in the temperature control results equivalents tab, it mentioned "To match it on a mod set to Titanium 1, adjust the temperature to ~210°C or ~410°F." and so I did. Seems a lot better than before. It was at 450F previously. What is this Equivalents tab suppose to be for? Oh....and thanks for the help.[/QUOTE] If your TCR is set to 0.006 and you think it's too hot, bring it down by 0.0005 to 0.0055 and see if that's cool enough. For Ti grade 1, 0.006 is on the high side. I use 0.0041 for Ti wire I got from unkamen and I've actually measured the resulting temperature to be very close to spot on. The equivalents tab on steam engine is for setting up mods that can't change TCR and are permanently set for Ni200. DNA 200 doesn't need that.

[Milkweed]

I kinda thought so after keep tinkering with it and reading that part again and again. Too bad I had to return to my normal dual Ti build. TC was all over the place and my juice were turning brown. You know how they taste like when that happens. But I'm gonna try it again soon. Thanks for the help @Mad Scientist.

[Milkweed]

Anyone else was successful with such build and uploading the csv file into escribe? @Mad Scentist perhaps you can share your csv file here....

[Mad Scientist]

Milkweed said:

Anyone else was successful with such build and uploading the csv file into escribe? @Mad Scentist perhaps you can share your csv file here....

When experimenting with wire TCR I don't bother to work up a polynomial curve. Just enter a TCR value in the "special" entry box (Ohm coefficient per degree Kelvin). My recollection is with unkamen Ti I use 0.0041 and with a 26 AWG Ti wrapped with 32 AWG kanthal I use 0.0037.

[Milkweed]

Noted. With that said, what temperature and wattage are you firing at? I had mine at 0.0038, set at 450F and firing at 35W. Am i doing it right? Seems better then what it was with my first experience.

[Mad Scientist]

Milkweed said:

Noted. With that said, what temperature and wattage are you firing at? I had mine at 0.0038, set at 450F and firing at 35W. Am i doing it right? Seems better then what it was with my first experience.

I set and leave my wattage at 75.x watts (with x being wattage set in the profile in use so I can see at a glance which profile is active). I adjust temp to anywhere between 430 and 490 to taste. 450 is usually just about right but I still adjust it up and down at times depending on what I feel like at the moment. Using device manager to see what it's doing, my attys tend to tail off at the end of a draw at anywhere between 25 and 50 watts.

[bmclaurin]

I just built a fused Clapton with a single strand of 32 gauge Nichrome 80 wrapped around 2 straight parallel strands of 0.5mm SSV Ti wire. Then did 5.5 wraps around a 3mm post, and it measures 0.11 ohms cold. Mounted it as a single coil in a Haze Dripper Tank RDA with reduced chamber plug. I used SSV's 0.5mm TFR curve, and it seems to work perfectly. The flavor of this build is off the charts good.

[jj6404]

bmclaurin said:

I just built a fused Clapton with a single strand of 32 gauge Nichrome 80 wrapped around 2 straight parallel strands of 0.5mm SSV Ti wire. Then did 5.5 wraps around a 3mm post, and it measures 0.11 ohms cold. Mounted it as a single coil in a Haze Dripper Tank RDA with reduced chamber plug. I used SSV's 0.5mm TFR curve, and it seems to work perfectly. The flavor of this build is off the charts good.

I used to build and use only Kanthal fused claptons all day before I got a DNA200 and got into temp control. I still have a lot of 36g Kanthal left. I've been thinking about claptoning titanium and/or SS but have been waiting for others do it and talk about it first enough before wasting my tire. So when you did this fused Clapton, did you wrap it spaced or contact? I'll be using LightningVapes Ti 1, I wonder if that will change its effectiveness for better or worse than SSV. I currently use SteamEngine's Ti1 curve for my Ti builds and it works great.

[bmclaurin]

I wrapped it as a contact coil, but once mounted, I used my screwdriver to wiggle it around a little work out the hot spots. Obviously, you have to be careful doing this with a titanium core. Just use a low wattage setting in power mode for this. The ramp-up time is not bad at all with the 32-gauge wrap (especially using preheat), but I'm going to build another one with a 36-gauge Nichrome 80 wrap (instead of 32) to cut it down even more. I think the 36-gauge wrap will cause it to heat almost instantaneously. Unfortunately, I have to wait for the 36-gauge to arrive in the mail.

EDIT:  It helps to have a 4-post atty, because the coil is pretty wide at 5.5 wraps. Even with a 4-post atty, I had to tilt it a little bit to clear the top cap. Obviously, I'm no coil artist, but it gets the job done.


 

[jj6404]

bmclaurin said:

I wrapped it as a contact coil, but once mounted, I used my screwdriver to wiggle it around a little work out the hot spots. Obviously, you have to be careful doing this with a titanium core. Just use a low wattage setting in power mode for this. The ramp-up time is not bad at all with the 32-gauge wrap (especially using preheat), but I'm going to build another one with a 36-gauge Nichrome 80 wrap (instead of 32) to cut it down even more. I think the 36-gauge wrap will cause it to heat almost instantaneously. Unfortunately, I have to wait for the 36-gauge to arrive in the mail.

EDIT:  It helps to have a 4-post atty, because the coil is pretty wide at 5.5 wraps. Even with a 4-post atty, I had to tilt it a little bit to clear the top cap. Obviously, I'm no coil artist, but it gets the job done.


 

What atty is that? It looks funky, lol. So that looks spaced to me. Is it just that last part where you angled it up that's spaced? Anyway, I'm thinking the 24g Ti1 that I have will be way too low of a resistance with a dual coil fused Clapton build, which is the only way I would do it. Plus, I think I will try spaced for now so the resistance will be even lower. Maybe I'll just try a regular clapton dual coil first. The rdas I use currently are the El Cabron (3 post but can fit huge builds with outer AFC design), Twisted Messes (4 post and outer AFC), and Velocity (2 post, even with inner AFC can fit huge builds as everyone knows). I just hope the SteamEngine Ti CSV will work with it.

[bmclaurin]

It's a VHO Haze Dripper Tank RDA. https://bevapehappy.com/shop/haze-dripper-tank-by-vho/ Very strange looking indeed, but it has great flavor. The plastic thing is a chamber reducer that helps concentrate the vapor (and flavor). It has a large juice well (small tank, I guess) underneath. There is a cylinder sleeve (not in pic) that fits down around the bottom portion to hold the juice. The wick feeds down through two holes in the deck to reach the juice well. It has an offset drip tip that also adds a unique twist on the flavor. Anyway, on the build, it was wrapped as a contact coil, but I loosened it up a bit by wiggling it with my screwdriver to work out the hot spots. And, yes the rightmost loop got angled out a bit when I tilted it. Yeah, a 24-gauge parallel titanium core is gonna go way low in a dual coil. The parallel 0.5mm Ti wire core in my pictured build above is basically 24-gauge. And settled in at 0.11 ohms with 5.5 wraps around a 3mm post, obviously in a single coil. Too low for a dual coil, which is why I mounted it on that particular RDA, since it was basically designed for single coil.

[Havensal]

I have played around with A1 over various TC wire builds.  My best luck has been to strip the clapton off under the terminals.  This allows good contact to the TC wire and keeps the TCR accurate. 

[jj6404]

Havensal said:

I have played around with A1 over various TC wire builds.  My best luck has been to strip the clapton off under the terminals.  This allows good contact to the TC wire and keeps the TCR accurate. 

That's a good idea. Have you had luck with SS as the core?

[Havensal]

jj6404 said:

[QUOTE=Havensal]I have played around with A1 over various TC wire builds.  My best luck has been to strip the clapton off under the terminals.  This allows good contact to the TC wire and keeps the TCR accurate. 

That's a good idea. Have you had luck with SS as the core?[/QUOTE]
A build or two, worked OK.  I went back to NI, the curve is too flat for me on TI and SS.  I get more consistency off NI. 

[Margucci]

jj6404 said:

[QUOTE=Havensal]I have played around with A1 over various TC wire builds.  My best luck has been to strip the clapton off under the terminals.  This allows good contact to the TC wire and keeps the TCR accurate. 

That's a good idea. Have you had luck with SS as the core?[/QUOTE]

the problem with that is SS doesnt give you very accurate temp control. i am currently waiting on some Ni200 28GA wire to be delivered. im planning on making a clapton from that 28GA Ni core with a 32GA 316SS wrap. i really like the taste of SS. Ni and Ti just seems off to me. hopefully this will maintain the flavor of SS with the TC accuracy of Ni. 

..... 3 weeks and still waiting on the order from fasttech. 

[jj6404]

Mad Scientist said:

[QUOTE=Milkweed]Anyone else was successful with such build and uploading the csv file into escribe? @Mad Scentist perhaps you can share your csv file here....

When experimenting with wire TCR I don't bother to work up a polynomial curve. Just enter a TCR value in the "special" entry box (Ohm coefficient per degree Kelvin). My recollection is with unkamen Ti I use 0.0041 and with a 26 AWG Ti wrapped with 32 AWG kanthal I use 0.0037.[/QUOTE]

What would you use for 24g Ti1 from Lightning Vapes with 36g KA1 outer wrap? I just put a 10 wrap dual coil 2.5mm ID 24gTi1/36KA1 Clapton build in my Velocity. Been using it with the Steam Engine default Ti1 csv. It's been ok. I had to turn the temp and wattage down so I guess its not as accurate as it could be. I turned it down not because I was getting dry hits but because the vape was hotter than I liked it. I have no idea how much kanthal I used so I don't know what to put in Steam Engine's Wire Wizard to make a CSV. Can anyone just recommend a TCR?

Here's a pic:
 

[Margucci]

using the steam engine you can create a custom TCR curve. just build your coil in the wire builder. 

[jj6404]

Margucci said:

using the steam engine you can create a custom TCR curve. just build your coil in the wire builder. 

In my previous post I noted that I don't know the wire lengths of the wires that I used so I have no idea what to put in the wire wizard, especially for the 36g outer.

[Margucci]

you dont need the lengths of the individual wires to calculate the TCR. just build the coil itself and the TCR is the same regardless of length. 

[Jentz9517]

Mad Scientist said:

[QUOTE=Milkweed][QUOTE=Mad Scientist]I've used dual claptons wrapped as you describe. I found that the TCR is lower than just plain Ti. You may need to adjust your TCR down by about 0.0005. I would not make any adjustments to actual cold resistance (it is what it is). If you're sure its running too hot on a stable build, reducing the TCR will reduce the temp. Steam engine is pretty good but not always perfect, and the exact wire you have may differ from what steam engine thinks both in resistance per length and TCR. Also keep in mind that a good set of claptons will tend to produce a hotter vape.

Let me get this right. So if my TCR was 0.006 I have to bring it down to 0.001 or just 0.005? And I think you mean 0.005 as the range is only 0.001-0.01. I also noticed in the temperature control results equivalents tab, it mentioned "To match it on a mod set to Titanium 1, adjust the temperature to ~210°C or ~410°F." and so I did. Seems a lot better than before. It was at 450F previously. What is this Equivalents tab suppose to be for? Oh....and thanks for the help.[/QUOTE] If your TCR is set to 0.006 and you think it's too hot, bring it down by 0.0005 to 0.0055 and see if that's cool enough. For Ti grade 1, 0.006 is on the high side. I use 0.0041 for Ti wire I got from unkamen and I've actually measured the resulting temperature to be very close to spot on. The equivalents tab on steam engine is for setting up mods that can't change TCR and are permanently set for Ni200. DNA 200 doesn't need that. [/QUOTE] So you are manually entering 0.0041 as the tcr for Unkamen under special ? Are you then adjusting the temp points on graph because I have had better success with using the 0.006 value nickel default I'm guess it is- I know you have explained but it seems inconsistent and fluctuates the resistance can you elaborate ? Thanks

[jj6404]

I'm not sure what's going on with my Ti1/KA1 clapton. I remember when I first vaped a kanthal/nicotine clapton coming from only basic kanthal microcoils, the flavor difference was amazing. I'm not getting that with this. It's more wet and dense I guess but it doesn't necessarily taste better to me. I get more of a throat hit and oddly, less of the menthol hit (I add menthol to all my juices).