VC Parsons SBS Weak Battery ?

[Jooki]

Batteries are 11 month old, where brand new molicel p26a, not charged on a daily basis, charged around 100 times, maybe even less, changed wraps 4 days ago, spotless, running at 70w, 0.2ohm coils, batteries have 3,8v remaining and i get the weak battery message... wtf?

[dwcraig1]

The power from the batteries have to make it to the board. A few things can stop this from happening correctly. Example, dirty batteriy contacts, loose fitting batteries, weak cell, bad solder joint ect.

What board model?

[Jooki]

7 hours ago, dwcraig1 said:

The power from the batteries have to make it to the board. A few things can stop this from happening correctly. Example, dirty batteriy contacts, loose fitting batteries, weak cell, bad solder joint ect.

What board model?

batteriy contacts are mint, i screwed them down as i always do on my mech mods, my hog 400, my aios, and the parsons i just bought, solder joints, they aint protected batteries...

i thought i posted this in the dna 80c subforum??

don't get me wrong, i'm not blaming the board, if something's to blame is the battery, it's just that's supposed to be a relatively new battery far from it's life cycle... :S

is there any configuration i can tune in escribe to make it better?

[dwcraig1]

Is it a San AIO?

[Jooki]

43 minutes ago, dwcraig1 said:

Is it a San AIO?

no, sorry, it's the brand new vaper's cloud parsons.

[dwcraig1]

The DNA80C doesn't have the ability to change the cell software cutoff through EScribe. Normally a hi amp round cell would be set to 2.75 volts. I believe it's set to about 3.2 volts via the firmware. You can use EScribe's Device monitor to see just what the voltage is when it throttles down. It appears to me that it is a connection problem between the cell and the board as your choice of cell is good. The San AIO has/had a similar problem because of the top plate. If your able to easily access the board make sure the 3 mounting screws are tight as that most likely is how they did the ground.

[IcyFridge]

Seeing this on two separate mods leads me to believe it's not the mod, but the chipset itself.

So there's no way in eScribe to change the cutoff?

[dwcraig1]

Here is my DNA80C boro mod firing at 50 watts with a Samsung 20S 18650 30 amp cell. This standing voltage was 4.1 volts prior to firing (measured with meter). Note the voltage drops to 3.72 volts during firing. Compare yours firing at 50 watts with a cell of similar charge using EScribe's Device Monitor. I'm not seeing any problem with my board. 

[IcyFridge]

2 hours ago, dwcraig1 said:

Here is my DNA80C boro mod firing at 50 watts with a Samsung 20S 18650 30 amp cell. This standing voltage was 4.1 volts prior to firing (measured with meter). Note the voltage drops to 3.72 volts during firing. Compare yours firing at 50 watts with a cell of similar charge using EScribe's Device Monitor. I'm not seeing any problem with my board. 

I am a MTL guy and once my Bi2hop comes in I’ll compare battery life with my Billet Box. I also have an old Joyetech Evic primo with arctic fox I can check as well.  

[Jooki]

On 12/2/2024 at 9:13 PM, dwcraig1 said:

Here is my DNA80C boro mod firing at 50 watts with a Samsung 20S 18650 30 amp cell. This standing voltage was 4.1 volts prior to firing (measured with meter). Note the voltage drops to 3.72 volts during firing. Compare yours firing at 50 watts with a cell of similar charge using EScribe's Device Monitor. I'm not seeing any problem with my board. 

Hello, thank you for your detailed explanation.

I've done some testing with the p26a and with with a p28b and a tita x2 aio and with the parsons, which is the one it seems i'm having the issue.

Screenshot 1 titled tita X2 aio: 

-atomizer is tita rba with a .45 coil running at 80w.graphs:
1. p26a (the one giving the weak battery message on the parsons mod.
2. p28b

 

 

Screenshot 2 titled parsons:

-atomizer THC Artemis II TC RDTA with two coils at 0.2 ohm total running at 80w.

graphs:
1. p26a WEAK BATTERY warning
2. p28b
3. p26a WEAK BATTERY warning

 

 

I've never had issues so i've never meddled with escribe so i'm not sure how to interpret these graphs, hopefully with these tests with different bateries and mods and atomizers you'll be able to pinpoint the issue, if it's the mod or if it's the battery.


Your help is very much appreciated.

Edited December 5 by Jooki

[Wayneo]

1 hour ago, Jooki said:

so i'm not sure how to interpret these graphs

The best way is to look at what @dwcraig1 said.

On 12/2/2024 at 3:13 PM, dwcraig1 said:

This standing voltage was 4.1 volts prior to firing (measured with meter). Note the voltage drops to 3.72 volts during firing

So (using his setup @ 50watts, he was getting .38v drop while firing). He asked "Compare yours firing at 50 watts with a cell of similar charge"

Great screenshots by the way, and you can get multiple lines on each (on my Mac I hold the control key). Beginning and at the lowest point and maybe even after. Here's one now from my 80C boro, 28 watts with boost to 38 watts, old Sony. At the 38 watts with boost I had .4V drop, and during the regular 28watts only .3v drop.

EDIT: CAN YOU LOSE THE 2ND 'VOLTAGE' IN 'CURRENT PUFF' AND ENABLE' POWER AND POWER SET 

[Jooki]

finally did the tests, these are the results

i've been told by the shop where i bought it that it is to be expected that a single battery mod will only give max power when battery is fully charged, even a brand new p28b.

somehow i doubt it and feeling scammed.

Edited Monday at 07:30 PM by Jooki

[dwcraig1]

I'm in the middle of testing my DNA80C boro mod. I'm running the battery down to where I get the "Weak Battery" message then I'll remove the cell and measure it's standing voltage. Then I'll put it back in and turn of charging and get an idea what the Cell Soft Cutoff voltage is. But I can see the cutoff on yours, it's 3 v.

I'm using a Samsung 20s 30 amp 18650.

Here's where I'm at with it. The standing battery voltage right now is 3.54v, it is still hitting strong, no throttling yet.

I have it set to 35 watt with a boost of 2 so it is starting to fire at 45 watts. 

Once I get the weak battery message and measure it I'll charge it to 3.81v and crank it up to 80 watts and compare results.

My build is not designed for 80 watts but there should be no problem getting 6 fires from it, I'll just rebuild it when done. 

[Jooki]

42 minutes ago, dwcraig1 said:

I'm in the middle of testing my DNA80C boro mod. I'm running the battery down to where I get the "Weak Battery" message then I'll remove the cell and measure it's standing voltage. Then I'll put it back in and turn of charging and get an idea what the Cell Soft Cutoff voltage is. But I can see the cutoff on yours, it's 3 v.

I'm using a Samsung 20s 30 amp 18650.

Here's where I'm at with it. The standing battery voltage right now is 3.54v, it is still hitting strong, no throttling yet.

I have it set to 35 watt with a boost of 2 so it is starting to fire at 45 watts. 

Once I get the weak battery message and measure it I'll charge it to 3.81v and crank it up to 80 watts and compare results.

My build is not designed for 80 watts but there should be no problem getting 6 fires from it, I'll just rebuild it when done. 

I appreciate your help very much, tbh im a tad disappointed because you're doing more testing than the the lad that rested my mod on the shop (i sent it back), he did test it in dry and without even cotton... that's no way of properly testing a mod yet say that the mod is fine when in my opinion it aint...

Edited Monday at 10:23 PM by Jooki

[Wayneo]

@Jooki First I must say you've posted most excellent DM screenshots. It would be much easier for you to do some tests at 50 watts so @dwcraig1 doesn't waste his setup at 80 watts. Mooch hasn't updated his listing to show the P28B, but the P28A's were only really a 25A battery good for 75 watts. 

[dwcraig1]

So there is a problem with my comparision device, it is an early test board and is unable to run the latest firmware so the Cell Soft Cutoff is 3.25 volts while yours is 3 volts But for all other intents and purposes they are the same.

Note if my cuttoff was 3 volts it would have done the 80 watts at that cell voltage. But not for long.

I got throttled to 75 watts on the first on and 72 on the 2nd.

[Jooki]

3 hours ago, Wayneo said:

@Jooki First I must say you've posted most excellent DM screenshots. It would be much easier for you to do some tests at 50 watts so @dwcraig1 doesn't waste his setup at 80 watts. Mooch hasn't updated his listing to show the P28B, but the P28A's were only really a 25A battery good for 75 watts. 

i don't have the mod anymore cuz i sent it back assuming it was botched, nevertheless, i did try with p26a and p28b and with both it wasnt stable at 80w.

 

3 hours ago, dwcraig1 said:

So there is a problem with my comparision device, it is an early test board and is unable to run the latest firmware so the Cell Soft Cutoff is 3.25 volts while yours is 3 volts But for all other intents and purposes they are the same.

Note if my cuttoff was 3 volts it would have done the 80 watts at that cell voltage. But not for long.

I got throttled to 75 watts on the first on and 72 on the 2nd.

thank you very much for your help, so i must assume now that i was just pushing it to the very limit? and with .2 ohm resistances the chip just can't deliver the 80 watts and it is working as intended and is not a botched mod?

Edited Tuesday at 01:39 AM by Jooki

[dwcraig1]

I'll just say this: if you want a chain to lift 100 lbs. you choose a chain that can handle 200 lbs.

Also today I tested my DNA100C at 80 watts using the same model cell. Standing voltage on the cell was 4.1 volts. Upon firing the voltage drop was 3.31 volts.

On this mod though the Cell Soft Cutoff is set to the default setting of 2.75 volts.

'I have created a ticket with Evolv asking why the 80's CSC is set so high. It's not adjustable in EScribe and done via firmware.

[Jooki]

14 minutes ago, dwcraig1 said:

I'll just say this: if you want a chain to lift 100 lbs. you choose a chain that can handle 200 lbs.

Also today I tested my DNA100C at 80 watts using the same model cell. Standing voltage on the cell was 4.1 volts. Upon firing the voltage drop was 3.31 volts.

On this mod though the Cell Soft Cutoff is set to the default setting of 2.75 volts.

'I have created a ticket with Evolv asking why the 80's CSC is set so high. It's not adjustable in EScribe and done via firmware.

welp, i get your point, tad disappointed is all... wanted to use it with my mtl .9ohm but also with my rdta .2... i see ima gonna have to use higher impedance resistances...

[dwcraig1]

With a regulated device coil resistance isn't going to make any difference as long as it is in the range that the board is designed to operate. Unlike a mecanical mod where you run straight off the battery.

Its the wattage to be considered.

[Jooki]

7 minutes ago, dwcraig1 said:

With a regulated device coil resistance isn't going to make any difference as long as it is in the range that the board is designed to operate. Unlike a mecanical mod where you run straight off the battery.

Its the wattage to be considered.

well, the contentious point of the guy that is overseeing my case on the shop i bought it, the one that tested it with a coil with no cotton in it (LMAO) said that running the test on another mod such as my tita aio wasnt a good comparison because it runs at a higher resistance, meaning lower amperage...


i honestly don't know much on the subject, i'm just a scuba diving instructor... so i don't know what or who to belive.

these are the tests i did run with my tita aio x2, i did run with the same battery, less charge, what i did observe is that the voltage cuttof is at 3,2 and then progressively goes down to 3,1, while with the parsons is flat out at 3 and the wattage is throttled while with the tita is stable.

Edited Tuesday at 02:31 AM by Jooki

[dwcraig1]

Better results for sure.

The data sheet for the 80 says 30 amp output and max 9 volts.

 snippets came from here:  https://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohms-law-calculators.asp

 

 

 

Voltage to the atomizer, not voltage from the battery.

[Jooki]

8 minutes ago, dwcraig1 said:

Better results for sure.

The data sheet for the 80 says 30 amp output and max 9 volts.

 snippets came from here:  https://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohms-law-calculators.asp

 

 

 

yeah that's why what that guy said sounded like bullshit, he boasted about knowing electronics and shit but....... would you call it bullshit too?

[dwcraig1]

There's a whole lot of folks don't get it about amp draw from the battery vs amp output from the board

 

[dwcraig1]

Here's my 80 back to normal. This is just an example of voltage drop where the device has resonably good connection between battery and board. This mod uses a chassis ground for all grounds.

That's 4.13 volts on the cell to start, fires to 45 watts and drops to 35 watts.

 

For comparision here is a DNA60C with LiPo, note only slightly better voltage drop.