SSV Ti .4mm TC Problems Galore - LavaBox DNA200

[WuBai]

I just received my LavaBox DNA200 and was thrilled until I discovered that the TC does not work properly.  The Temperature Control limit hits instantly and I've tried it on several attys with no luck, both with touching and not touching coils.  Same returns.

I did try the Ni200 Triton coil and it worked smoothly and perfectly on the LavaBox, but switching to Ti the problems began.

I've read online all about the 'its doing what its supposed to be doing' and yes I get that, but not the second you press the fire button.  To me is seems that the resistance is really jumping quickly when I fire.  I've check and check all my builds and everything is right.  Either it is the software, the LavaBox 510 Ground being shoddy or the SSV Ti wire (I'm using the CSV) being problematic.

Any advice would be appreciated.  Below is a picture of two pulls.  Power cuts off immediately and temp spikes and bounces.  I know there are several people who are having this issue.

 

This picture is with the Triton Ni200 which shows a smooth progression to the temp and the power gracefully swooping down.  Exactly like I thought it should work.

 
If you could help me solve this, you would be the vaping heroes of my life.  In need of advice vaping friends.  

[bmclaurin]

I'm using SSV Ti 0.4mm and 0.5mm with very good results on a Lavabox DNA 200. Just curious what builds and atty you are using. I'm mainly doing standard dual spaced coils (but have done a few contact coils as well) in the 0.10-0.15 ohm range. I have noticed that titanium wire is fairly sensitive to making optimum contact with your posts. For a few of my builds, I doubled back the legs in each post to give the screws some extra material to grab, and that seemed to help.

[bmclaurin]

Also, are you heating your coils some before wicking? I know most people say not to do this with Titanium, but I do it with all my titanium build, albeit at very low wattage. For my builds, a setting of about 10-15 watts in Power mode is just about right to warm them up ever so slightly. About a 5-second pulse on the fire button will cause the coils to slowly warm up to a very dull, dim reddish color (and I find I usually have to turn the lights off to see it clearly). This is good at helping spot any problems like hot leads or whatever. Obviously, you don't want to fire it a high power and turn the coils bright orange, so keep the power low for this.

[WuBai]

Thanks for the response.  So I'm running 7 wraps on an 1/8 drill bit and getting .34 ohms cold.  I'm running this on a Dove V2 with contacts really pressed down hard and making very firm contact both at the leads and at the 510.  I also did dry burn this on very low settings and got in the dark.  I've read almost every post on every forum and searched every iteration on Google about this issue that I could.  So frustrating and there are others with exactly the same issue out there.  I wonder if it is the LavaBox, but that is strange because it works on the Triton and the Ni200 coil in there.

[WuBai]

Another strange thing is that when I'm vaping on Ni200 Triton the watts start at around 40W (my setting) and drop down to around 26W before protection kicks in.  On the Ti wire it is always in fractions of 1 watt like .2 watts and lower.

[bmclaurin]

So we're talking single coil, I presume from those ohm readings? What are your preheat settings? Also, I'm sure you've triple checked this, but you're certain you've selected the correct profile on the box (the one to which you uploaded the .csv profile)?

[WuBai]

Man, you are really checking off all the boxes.  I dug and dug and dug through so much information and I should have posted this a long time ago.  If I just went with what you've written already I would have saved so much time!

Yes, I did make sure that it was set to the correct profile.  I even got the SSV logo on Profile 2 and the preheat power was set to 100W and the preheat time to 1 second and the punch at 5.

Crazy thing is that on the Ni200 Triton the temperature starts off way lower than the maximum and rises in an arc as I would suspect it should.  The power also tapers off in a reverse arc and everything is smooth.

When I put the SSV Ti wire on it, the graph looks like a Richter scale showing a magnitude 9 earthquake.

I've placed an order for some Ni200 wire that I can build on.  If the issue still persists I will have to see about returning my mod and having them check the internal ground on the 510 connection to the battery.  Sometimes they ground to the enclosure or sometimes the ground is just not connected properly and this looks like what I would suspect my issues are reflecting.

If it wasn't for the Triton coil working I would be certain that the grounding was the issue.  I've even cleaned the heck out of my Doge V2 and doubled back on the wires and tightened the connections.  I even sanded the 510 base and the screws with 1000 grit sandpaper!

[bmclaurin]

From what I'm seeing, I'm betting it's the build (or you're somehow not uploading the .csv profile correctly), not the chip or the mod. I know you're beating your head against a wall with this, but the fact that your nickel wire is performing fine indicates to me that the chip and mod are doing their job properly. Not sure what else to suggest except checking (again) the integrity of your coil. I guess one last thing to check is your ohm lock range setting--is it detecting that you're attaching a new coil? Are you getting the "new coil?" prompt?

[bmclaurin]

Looking again at the graphs you posted kinda reinforces my belief that something is awry with the build. The differential between the live and cold ohms on the Titanium graphs points strongly in that direction. I have a strong suspicion that one or both of the coil legs is not getting a good connection to the post. Or there is a weak spot in the coil (a crimp from a slight bend perhaps?) that is causing the resistance to surge when power is applied.

Hang in there, man. You'll get it sorted. And when you do, you're gonna be in for a treat. This chip is a whole new level.

[WuBai]

Crazy part is that I've built hundreds and hundreds of coils.  I do it by hand and even with Kanthal I was one of the crazies that twisted the wire straight with a drill and heated it first with a torch and used the drill and some pliers to make it super tight.  Now I'm not saying this to say this type of stuff is crazy, hell there are some  really CRAZY claptons that I wouldn't attempt, but I'm only saying this to say I'm fairly experienced with building these.

I do agree that the difference between the hot and cold ohms is huge.  I've built 6 coils on my Doge V2 and did one of the Veritas and one on my Plume Veil.  Same results with a crazy rocky temp that flies up and down.

Weird this is that if I set the temp to 290, it hits it instantly and bounces around it like crazy.  If I set it to 350, same thing.  Hits 350F instantly and bounces around.  If I set it to 600, same thing.  It instantly hits 600F and bounces around.  This is impossible because it isn't even close to 600F and I can touch the coil about 2 seconds after I fire with my finger.

I'm hopeful there will be a solution.  I'm hoping John and chime in and see if he can diagnose.  I'm getting some Ni200 wire arriving tomorrow and will report back once I build coils with that.  The difference between cold and hot ohms just doesn't make any sense to me.

[WuBai]

One big issue could be that I am not wicking the coils before running the test.  There is no cotton or juice in there.  I'm not sure how much of a difference this will make but I suppose I will give it a try and find out.

[Margucci]

of course that will make a difference. without any juice or wick the coil heats up and cools down much faster than it would as an entire system as you would normally vape it. titanium has a very low thermal capacity and since the resistance is just a function of the temperature the rapid cooling and heating of the coil without wicking or juice will cause more abrupt resistance changes. that being said, it is still more likely that it is an imperfection in the wire, issue with the contact with the posts, or one of the other things mentioned above. 

[bmclaurin]

One thing about the SSV Ti wire that makes no sense to me is the fact that SSV has published two different TFR curves--one for the 0.4mm version and another for the 0.5mm version. Unless the two different versions have a different chemical composition (i.e., different alloys), I am at a loss as to why they would have different temperature profiles. The curve they published for the 0.5 mm version is much closer to "traditional" Grade 1 titanium wire, and I have much better (or at least, more consistent) results using that curve (the 0.5mm curve), regardless of which thickness (0.4mm or 0.5mm) that I'm actually using in my build.

The published curve for the 0.4mm wire is much "steeper" than the published curve for the 0.5mm wire. If those wires are in fact the same alloy (which, unless someone corrects me, I believe they are), then the DNA 200 is going to impute a lower temperature for a given resistance using the 0.4mm curve versus what it would impute using the 0.5mm curve.

On single wire builds (e.g., standard dual coils), the effects of this discrepancy aren't hugely noticeable (to me, at least). But on builds with higher mass, it becomes much more noticeable. I did a 2-strand twisted (1.2 mm pitch) dual coil build earlier today, 5.5 wraps around 3mm post, which settled in at 0.10 ohm cold. Using the 0.4mm TFR curve, with a temp setting of 420F, the vape was much too hot. Certainly hotter than 420F. It was plainly evident while vaping it that it was overheating. Meanwhile, the device monitor showed that it wasn't even hitting the 420F temp limit, which was BS. So I switched over to the 0.5mm curve (even though I was using 0.4mm wire), and all was well.

If you fiddle around with the Wire Wizard over on SteamEngine, you can see that the TFR curves don't change simply by changing the diameter of the wire, as long as the wire material is the same. So I don't see why the SSV Ti wire would have two different curves for the two different wire diameters (again, unless they are different alloys, which I doubt). Makes no sense to me.

So, unless someone can point out for me what I'm missing, I'm steering clear of the 0.4mm curve for now.

[gryffandor]

It's not your build. I'm having the same problem on my VT200 box. The problem is the ccv from the SSV web site. I sent them an email Tuesday explaining the problem & im waiting for a response. If you want your coils to work switch to the Ti1 Titanium ccv generated by Steam Engine. The same coils will work fine. Perhaps not quite as accurate as the one from SSV was intended once they figure out the problem.

[WuBai]

Freedom, my friends, is never having to worry about a dry hit.

I updated my firmware, rebuilt a coil and actually wicked it and juiced it first.  Let it site overnight until the ohms were at a .37 and locked them.  Then I set punch to 8, preheat to 100W with 1 second ramp time using the SSV .5 and we are in TC Titanium nirvana.

I feel like I'm getting away with murder vaping this good.  Freedom is never having to worry about a dry burnt hit.

Thank you all for the help on this, titanium certainly is sensitive and I'm happy that after three days I got her firing just right!

[Haastile1@hotmail.com]

It's not so much that titanium is sensitive, it's the 100w of pre heat. Titanium doesn't really require much in the way of pre heat. In my Kayfun 4s I run single coils (.4mmTi) @ .6ohm and with 45w pre heat I have instant vapor production and reach 450° in under one second (punch at 11). My dual coil builds I actually match the pre heat to the wattage (punch at 11).

[craigdennis23]

Your preheat setting is great for a very restricted enclosed tank type, but In A very open rda that 45 watts won't get anywhere. I have to run clear up to 160 plus watts on 1.5 second preheat to get to temp quickly and maintain with 85-120 depending on the build and air flow of course.

[craigdennis23]

Your preheat setting is great for a very restricted enclosed tank type, but In A very open rda that 45 watts won't get anywhere. I have to run clear up to 160 plus watts on 1.5 second preheat to get to temp quickly and maintain with 85-120 depending on the build and air flow of course.