stainless steel and temperature control

[TwistedVegan]

http://wireandstuff.co.uk/products/430-Grade-Stainless-Steel---Magnetic.html

[TwistedVegan]

Thank you for this thread, this has been driving me nuts, just ordered loads of 317 earlier, hoping I can cancel and get 430 instead now.

[TwistedVegan]

Been looking at that for a while and wondering how the magnetic properties will effect things

[Jaquith]

The only place I've found so far is in Europe http://www.wireandstuff.co.uk/products/430-Grade-Stainless-Steel-Wire---0.5mm--500-Micron---24-AWG--267.html I've found 28 and 20 gauge, but so far the others at least in the USA have huge minimum orders for 24 AWG aka 0.5 mm http://www.unkamensupplies.com/search?q=430+

[Powerman]

So I take it they ship to the U.S.?

[jj6404]

superericla said:

I've been using ss430 (28 gauge) for a few weeks now and it's been great. I used the csv from steam-engine, and added in some more points calculated on their older TCR calculator to make it a touch more accurate. Running 430 with 0.75 ohms has been a lot more stable than I've experienced with ss316l or 317l. I'm running it right now at 440F, and the flavor and vapor production has been good.

Do you think it's more stable because you're building at such "high ohms"? I know it is still subohm but you know so many build below 0.5 and such these days. I have 24g SS316L and the most wraps I can fit in my largest rdas is 11 wraps which still comes out to about 0.25 ohms or so. I can never get it above 0.3.

[TrexWyo]

Any way I can get a pic of your build? With only finding 28g, I was thinking of doing twisted. I have a velocity decked Crius. Not sure how I'm going to wick for vertical.

I almost hate to show a picture. It is a Very Ugly Coil but has lots of mass and surface area and vapes well. There isn't a lot of room under the bottom end of the coil. Maybe 3/16".  Actually Looks more difficult than it is to wick a set of verticals. With a little practice, less than a minute to wick.

Wicking requires long strand cotton. I use Japanese cotton. Regular organic cotton from a cotton ball doesn't work very well.  Feed cotton into the top until it sticks out from the bottom a bit. Capture the tip of the wick with a needle point  and fish it out to the side until you can grab it with finger tips or tweezers. With needle point press down on the cotton into the well while pulling out the tail. A two hand operation.  Loosely fill the juice well with cotton and trim the top almost flush just a little above the top of the coil 

[superericla]

jj6404 said:

[QUOTE=superericla]I've been using ss430 (28 gauge) for a few weeks now and it's been great. I used the csv from steam-engine, and added in some more points calculated on their older TCR calculator to make it a touch more accurate. Running 430 with 0.75 ohms has been a lot more stable than I've experienced with ss316l or 317l. I'm running it right now at 440F, and the flavor and vapor production has been good.

Do you think it's more stable because you're building at such "high ohms"? I know it is still subohm but you know so many build below 0.5 and such these days. I have 24g SS316L and the most wraps I can fit in my largest rdas is 11 wraps which still comes out to about 0.25 ohms or so. I can never get it above 0.3. [/QUOTE]It could be due to the higher ohms at the moment, but I've previously built as low as around 0.3-0.4 ohms without any issues. It is a touch less accurate at lower ohms, yet still a noticeable improvement over 317l (in my experience).

Edit: Here's a picture of my current setup. It's 15 wraps, dual coil. Reading 0.75 ohms.

[Powerman]

TrexWyo said:

Any way I can get a pic of your build? With only finding 28g, I was thinking of doing twisted. I have a velocity decked Crius. Not sure how I'm going to wick for vertical.

I almost hate to show a picture. It is a Very Ugly Coil but has lots of mass and surface area and vapes well. There isn't a lot of room under the bottom end of the coil. Maybe 3/16".  Actually Looks more difficult than it is to wick a set of verticals. With a little practice, less than a minute to wick.

Wicking requires long strand cotton. I use Japanese cotton. Regular organic cotton from a cotton ball doesn't work very well.  Feed cotton into the top until it sticks out from the bottom a bit. Capture the tip of the wick with a needle point  and fish it out to the side until you can grab it with finger tips or tweezers. With needle point press down on the cotton into the well while pulling out the tail. A two hand operation.  Loosely fill the juice well with cotton and trim the top almost flush just a little above the top of the coil

thanks. Ya, I assumed you wrap cotton around the outside with vertical. Didn't know you could do it that way. Clears up a lot. thanks a lot.

[TrexWyo]

This build is going to be hard to beat for Unkamen's Nickel Free 28 gauge SS 430 that results in a stable temperature. It is 16 wraps of twisted annealed 28 gauge around 3mm arbor at about a 1.5 pitch. Came in at .445 cold ohms. Twist pitch ended up at 1.5mm A lot looser than I wanted but that is where the ware broke. When I replace this coil I'll Anneal the wire before twisting instead of after to see if that gives me a tighter pitch which should increase the cold resistance a little more.

The graph below is about a 5 second vape in a 10 second window. Set for 90 watts, 1 second 150 watt preheat. Vertical coil on a Steamcrave Aromamizer. Going to kill a battery quick though. 

[TrexWyo]

Here is that build above. not quite the flavor production as the 2 wire twisted with two twisted wires I was using before though. Close though. More wattage might help that though.  

[Jalcide]

Regarding 430 SS: Does anyone know if WireAndStuff ships to the US?

There's nothing about it on their site. I emailed them and will share once I hear back (unless someone beats me to the answer).

Update: They answered. They do ship to the United States and recommend choosing a shipping method with tracking.

[st0fr]

Just ordered a bunch of 430. Sounds interresting.

[st0fr]

I've also been in contact with them about them setting up their own CSV files for temp control.

They are very good people, but wholly new to the vaping scene. They are by their own words "a mesh company" and the vaping wires is something they do because well, they have the wire anyways.

But they were very positive about the whole idea after I explained it to them. I've written them the contact info I got from Evolve, but I am yet to hear from them again. They are building a new mesh website or some such. 

 

Will keep you guys updated. They seem to produce really good quality wire.

[jj6404]

I just put a dual coil twisted 24g UD 316L 10 wrap, 2.5mm ID build in my Twisted Messes RDA and at first it kept popping out of TC. It came out to 0.1 ohms, wonder if that's the reason. It's been working somewhat on Jaquith's files but I have to set the temp low because it seems to be reading it real low. I was thinking of making a CSV with the Wire Wizard but knowing that Steam Engine's 316 CSVs suck already, I wonder if making a twisted CSV will be any better.

[Jaquith]

Every SS build I do, Preheat is off (1,1,0) and version V3 is the most accurate and all the variations between V3 to V4 are warmer with V4 the hottest. I have a V2 that's cooler. I do know this, some Atty's have resistance jumping problems. SS requires rock solid connectivity, small changes produce big variations. LOL I had one Atty that jumped from 0.20 to 1.20 when I noticed it didn't fire, and another with a short that went down to a 0.06 with an absolute horrible taste and a popped coil. So a lousy 510, loose wires, partial shorts, sketchy press fitted connections and settings can all adversely effect performance.

[vapeit29]

I used jaquiths v3 with 55w, 560f, 120w preheat, 5 punch, .5 sec preheat. Used ud 316l, dual coil 8 wraps around 3mm. Ohms at .21 on indestructible atty works fantastic. Thanks for all the info I was ready to give up!

[superericla]

Just ordered some 20 gauge ss430 wire from Unkamen. I'll let you guys know how it turns out when it arrives.

[UKDTweak]

I have been using 25awg 317l with the TFR from the wire wizard, normally i make two coils coming in around 0.2/0.25 ohms, spaced in the OBS Crius and run with 70w Pre heat and 50-60w normal, last night i decided to try doing twisted 25awg SS coils in my Aromamizer, came out at 0.1ohms, but using the same TFR and setting from the wire wizard and it was not getting anywhere near the TC limit, at 140w it got very close but was way too hot for normal use.
I then used the old Steam Engine TFR Calculator page and downloaded the TFR from it and now it is working great.. just like my normal builds would, but only on my 3D printed DNA200, on my Two Reuleaux DNA200's i get no joy, could this be down to the fact its such low ohms?

With the wire wizard TFR and 70w pre heat and 60w normal on the Reuleaux i get to maybe 80/120c, with the old Calc TFR i get 3522C and thottling Instantly...

Very odd and inconsistent!

[superericla]

Got some 20 gauge SS430 in the mail today, and it surprisingly works... on my Vaporshark DNA 200. It doesn't see the wire as being tc wire on my Reuleaux DNA 200, however. It's not terribly accurate, but it does produce a satisfying vape.

[Taver13]

im runnin the jaquith v7 in my 30mm asmodus dripper with tripple twisted 24 gauge 317l from unkamen, 10 wrap 3.5 mm contact coils, and it is working beautifully, 100 watt 1 second preheat with punch at 3.3, runnin at 80 watts @475

[jj6404]

So maybe somebody (David) can help me out here...

I just got my UD SS316L 28 gauge and my SSS304 32 gauge that I got from Unkamen. I ordered these wires specifically to make all SS fused claptons. Now an hour later I've gone through three builds and who knows how many feet of wire and I'll I've gotten is hotspot hell (all spaced builds btw), and all 3 builds (2.5mm ID spaced 6 wrap dual coils) have been kicking back to wattage mode immediately through Jaquith V3, 4, 3.25, a custom Steam Engine CSV and the SS mode on my RX200.

What I don't get is, how when I've used several SS316L+Kanthal fused Clapton builds successfully in both my DNA200 and my RX200, a SS316L+SS304 build won't stay in temp control...

And on my latest "success", I've noticed this!

 

Now is that freakin' rust??? That's how it looks after about 5 toots at 50-75 watts with the cotton still wet as you can see...

Why is this happening?

[Jaquith]

Generally mixing metals can have unpredictable outcomes. However, most stainless under normal conditions shouldn't 'rust' as shown. High carbon steel, low chromium or plated will indeed rust (iron oxide). Sometimes excessive heating causes leaching, recrystallization, oxidations, and a general breakdown of alloys. I'd try to repeat the process with each metal individually starting with the 34 gauge Clapton which I'm pretty certain is the culprit. Most of my Clapton wire is Kanthal and I've successfully mixed with Ni200, Titanium and SS316L with no problems. I assume you pulsed your coils white or yellow-white in VW Mode.

[jj6404]

White as in white hot? No I pulsed them bright orange a few times to work out hot spots.

[HugeEgo]

304 SS is not as corrosion resistant as 316 and both alloys lose corrosion resistance with increased temp. From that pic, it looks like the 304 is the culprit (which makes sense).  Generally, the lower the carbon content of the steel, the better for corrosion resistance.  You're using standard 304 and not 304L.  I think for vaping, the "L" grades are likely always best.  Eliquid chemistry is more complex than many give it credit for and there's an organic chemistry soup in there that is probably harsh enough to corrode some metals, especially at high heat.

If you want to use SS, it's best to probably go with 317L, which has the highest corrosion resistance of all (readily available) grades of SS.  316L would be the 2nd best.

If I were you, I would put some of the 316L in a build by itself and then some 304 (if you have any thick enough) into a build by itself.  Use the same juice for both and fire them for a while and check the results.

Here's a chart on the corrosion resistant properties (from various chemical attacks) of 304 and 316.  Lots of other good info out there in google land.