Atomizer not reaching set temperature

[skatingnobody]

First time forum goer and first time DNA-owner here...

So the gist is that I'm running a Kayfun X on a Thelema Solo DNA 100C. 

Coil: 2.5mm ID, 8/9 wraps, spaced, 316SSL 28g, reading as 1.04 ohms.

Settings: TCR 0.00088, 13.5W, 400F, no preheat and punch 1. 

The TC is working, but in the average 3-6s pulls I take, the temperature is topping out in the 380's. It's stepping down my 13.5W to 11.1W and keeping a consistent temp, but in the 380's, and not the set 400F. 

Not sure if there's a setting or something I'm missing, but I'd like to figure out how I can get my atty to get up-to-temp quickly... Even if that means using preheat and/or punch, just not sure how to, or the best settings. 

thank you to any one that may be able to help at all

[Wayneo]

Welcome 👋
I'll start by saying you should watch a video or two about DNA mods (longer DJLSB Vapes) so you get a better understanding overall of these mods and lingo.

I'd prefer to see a Device Monitor screenshot, please.

Start Device Monitor. On the left, click these checkboxes only.
Power, power set, temperature, temperature set, cold ohms, live ohms.

Take a puff or two, pause Device Monitor. Post screenshot of full screen (link in my signature line)

[skatingnobody]

16 hours ago, Wayneo said:

Welcome 👋
I'll start by saying you should watch a video or two about DNA mods (longer DJLSB Vapes) so you get a better understanding overall of these mods and lingo.

I'd prefer to see a Device Monitor screenshot, please.

Start Device Monitor. On the left, click these checkboxes only.
Power, power set, temperature, temperature set, cold ohms, live ohms.

Take a puff or two, pause Device Monitor. Post screenshot of full screen (link in my signature line)

So my setup has changed, but the same issue, plus more... 

Still not reaching temp, but the vape feels insanely hot compared to what the diagnostics are showing me. 

2mm ID - 316SSL - 9/8 wraps - reading at around 0.85ohms

And mostly I'm just getting instantly temp-protected as well as having all the power to the atomizer cut off when the temp protection kicks in. 

[Wayneo]

OK. Thanks for that screenshot. Just perfect.

Something does not jive. 
Are you sure you're using Stainless Steel? Still spaced, and did you do a dry (low glow)/burn to ensure it's heating up from the middle to outer edges?
TC should not be hard or difficult to setup and get working. instantly temp-protected is also a sign of runaway ohms from your coil. In escribe, in that profile, down at the bottom you'll see 'Atomizer Analyzer'. With a cold coil can you tell me how much it fluctuates over a minute. It should only be a few thousandths.

That 1st puff showed that your cold ohms are actually lower than measured, but at less than 200°F you should not even get vapor, much less 'insanely hot', so I agree with you on that point.

Can you go to just your straight Watts profile, re-measure the ohms, and vaping in straight watts, find the value that feels good to you. Then post another screenshot like before, using straight watts. No boost. 

Do you by any chance have another atty that you can use, to test in TC?

[skatingnobody]

4 hours ago, Wayneo said:

OK. Thanks for that screenshot. Just perfect.

Something does not jive. 
Are you sure you're using Stainless Steel? Still spaced, and did you do a dry (low glow)/burn to ensure it's heating up from the middle to outer edges?
TC should not be hard or difficult to setup and get working. instantly temp-protected is also a sign of runaway ohms from your coil. In escribe, in that profile, down at the bottom you'll see 'Atomizer Analyzer'. With a cold coil can you tell me how much it fluctuates over a minute. It should only be a few thousandths.

That 1st puff showed that your cold ohms are actually lower than measured, but at less than 200°F you should not even get vapor, much less 'insanely hot', so I agree with you on that point.

Can you go to just your straight Watts profile, re-measure the ohms, and vaping in straight watts, find the value that feels good to you. Then post another screenshot like before, using straight watts. No boost. 

Do you by any chance have another atty that you can use, to test in TC?

As sure as rain it's 316SSL, unless I was sold something mislabeled... I was using the same roll about six years ago on a KFL2019 with an Asmodus Colossal and it was working near perfectly (even if not "accurate" persae). Still spaced, no hotspots

And as far as the atomizer stability goes, it seems rock solid. For both the KFX and KFL19.

And yes! I do. I've got three diagnostics screens for you. 

#1 is the KFX in watts, #2 is KFL19 in Watts, #3 is the KFL19 in TC

Edited April 23, 2023 by skatingnobody
Missed response

[Wayneo]

Thanks again for those screenshots. So I asked;

6 hours ago, Wayneo said:

Can you go to just your straight Watts profile, re-measure the ohms, and vaping in straight watts, find the value that feels good to you. Then post another screenshot like before, using straight watts. No boost. 

#1 is the KFX in watts - were you actually puffing? I see 2 puffs. In the first (in the first, left puff) do you see how the 'live ohms' crosses below the 'cold ohms' line. Off the bat that says the coil was still a bit warm. But based on the numbers shown, you were still around the ~250F range. I can see that maybe if you have a tight airflow or possibly super high nic so you're pulling gently.

#2 and #3 I believe you did the TC puff #3 actually before the straight watts of #2 by the Total puff count of each.

So for #3 is the KFL19 in TC - now the temp is ~360F using the stock evolv material profile. 17 watts was not to get to the 'temp set' so midway you relaxed the puff as shown in that red line dropping, as well as the live ohms, and the 17 watt limit never dropped.

Puff #2 is KFL19 in Watts - Clearly shows ~360F using the stock evolv material profile.

After saying all that you're no closer really to 420F. Can you tell me why you're dead set at vaping at 420F?  You must realize that's the limit, hence the 'protected' from going over your limit. Although you can vape at the limit, it was never Evolv's thought, as you get a ramp down in watts and a weaker puff once at the limit.

Looks like coil/atty issue to me, but you say it's all perfect on two attys.

There is also Replay, whereby you using your SS or unknown wire can reach a puff you like using watts and 'watts' material, then enable/set Replay. That offers dry hit protection, but no temperature shown. Much simpler to get as good if not better results than TC. Let me know if you at least want to try that and I can help you.

[skatingnobody]

On 4/23/2023 at 2:19 PM, Wayneo said:

Thanks again for those screenshots. So I asked;

#1 is the KFX in watts - were you actually puffing? I see 2 puffs. In the first (in the first, left puff) do you see how the 'live ohms' crosses below the 'cold ohms' line. Off the bat that says the coil was still a bit warm. But based on the numbers shown, you were still around the ~250F range. I can see that maybe if you have a tight airflow or possibly super high nic so you're pulling gently.

#2 and #3 I believe you did the TC puff #3 actually before the straight watts of #2 by the Total puff count of each.

So for #3 is the KFL19 in TC - now the temp is ~360F using the stock evolv material profile. 17 watts was not to get to the 'temp set' so midway you relaxed the puff as shown in that red line dropping, as well as the live ohms, and the 17 watt limit never dropped.

Puff #2 is KFL19 in Watts - Clearly shows ~360F using the stock evolv material profile.

After saying all that you're no closer really to 420F. Can you tell me why you're dead set at vaping at 420F?  You must realize that's the limit, hence the 'protected' from going over your limit. Although you can vape at the limit, it was never Evolv's thought, as you get a ramp down in watts and a weaker puff once at the limit.

Looks like coil/atty issue to me, but you say it's all perfect on two attys.

There is also Replay, whereby you using your SS or unknown wire can reach a puff you like using watts and 'watts' material, then enable/set Replay. That offers dry hit protection, but no temperature shown. Much simpler to get as good if not better results than TC. Let me know if you at least want to try that and I can help you.

I've got faith in the chip. I know that TC will work, it's just a matter of figuring out why and then troubleshooting from there (which, by the way, huge thank you for the help)

That was a lot of new information though... I'll have to give a proper response this weekend after I set up a testing protocol between the two atty's I've got to isolate as many variables as possible. 

I can address some points right now, though.

#1: Generally a very tight but relaxed MTL airflow, on 55mg nic-salts right now. I have to get a bottle of freebase because it is strong, yes.

#3: I am actually running the "Vape boy 3000 polished theme (vertical)"... Does the theme matter if the settings are identical? or should I be running all of these tests on stock?

And the actual temperature I vape at doesn't matter to me, I just want a satisfying vape regardless of the temperature. Even if I set the temperature limit lower, it still undershoots the setting by about the same margin. And I do realize that the temp protection is designed to keep you from going over the limit, but instead of just showing the temp protect message and letting me continue to vape at/near the limit, all power to the atty is cut off the second the temp protection kicks in. 

I've been messing around with everything and I can tell you that despite stable ohms reading from the atomizer analyzer, some puffs will just undershoot the setting entirely, but other puffs the temp-protect kicks in as soon as I press the fire button, preventing me from vaping... 

I'll have another write up for you this following Saturday night and/or Sunday morning



 

[Wayneo]

7 hours ago, skatingnobody said:

#3: I am actually running the "Vape boy 3000 polished theme (vertical)"... Does the theme matter if the settings are identical? or should I be running all of these tests on stock?

Themes can definitely fuck things up royally and on the sly. There are some real gems and some real shitty ones. Same thing for material profiles. And that is why I always talk/say 'stock evolv' and Device Monitor. In the future you might want to include a screenshot of the Profile used. Just ensure the 2 'Replay' checkboxes are not enabled.(I don't think they are enabled) AND I hope you did not lock your ohms on any of this

It would be in your best interest to run everything stock for now.

On 4/23/2023 at 12:40 PM, skatingnobody said:

And as far as the atomizer stability goes, it seems rock solid. For both the KFX and KFL19.

BTW every TC controllable coil fluctuates with Atomizer Analyzer.

7 hours ago, skatingnobody said:

I've been messing around with everything and I can tell you that despite stable ohms reading from the atomizer analyzer, some puffs will just undershoot the setting entirely, but other puffs the temp-protect kicks in as soon as I press the fire button, preventing me from vaping... 

So for me that is like starting from scratch with everything. For the second time TEMP PROTECT AS SOON AS YOU PRESS THE FIRE BUTTON IS A SIGN OF RUNAWAY OHMS, MEANING FIX YOUR BUILD.

One last thing for future screenshots, please uncheck those 2 down in the Statistics area, I never asked for them and it muddies the display 🙂

[Wayneo]

 

And so what was the final outcome of this abandoned post? Where I kept making comments like these. 

On 4/23/2023 at 8:15 AM, Wayneo said:

TC should not be hard or difficult to setup and get working. instantly temp-protected is also a sign of runaway ohms from your coil. In escribe, in that profile, down at the bottom you'll see 'Atomizer Analyzer'. With a cold coil can you tell me how much it fluctuates over a minute. It should only be a few thousandths.

On 4/23/2023 at 2:19 PM, Wayneo said:

Looks like coil/atty issue to me, but you say it's all perfect on two attys.

 

On 4/25/2023 at 8:04 AM, Wayneo said:

For the second time TEMP PROTECT AS SOON AS YOU PRESS THE FIRE BUTTON IS A SIGN OF RUNAWAY OHMS, MEANING FIX YOUR BUILD.

Here, I'll show you

AND

Yup, there you have it.