Jalcide

New (to me) information that suggests a higher ohm SS build (more wraps and/or thinner gauge) will lead to more temperature control accuracy: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/tc-beyond-ni200-nickel-purity-dicodes-ti-ss-resistherm-nife30-coefficient-of-resistance.676506/page-61#post-16440202 I believe I'm seeing this in practice.

It can be done via the button labeled "Special" in EScribe.

Great observation about profiles and DM. Yeah, I'm even more sure I want this, now that I have some raw data to back up the vape experience. I just learned of the awesome "Last Power" (mean-wattage) value that can be shown on the device via the custom fields. I'm finding that a 10 degree bump will go, for example, from a 16 mean-wattage to around 18 or 19 mean-wattage. Maybe I want 17 for mean wattage. Can't do it (except if using a profile -- which is mostly useless, as the conditions never stay that way for long in real-world usage).

Thanks, Jaquith. Yeah, I can see how voltage could be insightful. My approach is different. What I really wanted all along was mean-wattage after all was said and done. I always know what the target wattage should be for a given build, temperature control aside. I'm a happy camper now, as "Last Power" gives me exactly that. This is kind of a game-changer for me.

Ahh, right. Yeah, we misunderstood each other. You were talking about "current of the battery" (measured directly) and I was talking about "current from the battery" at that moment in time via the load the coil is asking for. But I'm now way more interested in showing Last Power and Last Temp (which it does!).

This is awesome. I've now got it showing Last Power in field 2 and Last Temperature in field 3. So, the mean-wattage and mean-temperature from the last puff. Now that is useful. I can always see the set temp by going into the temp set screen. Perfect! Thanks for sending me down this enlightened path, speed4mee.

Wow, maybe it is there. In Device Monitor, under Last Puff, Power. That's the mean-power for that puff, right? If so, that's what I want. And, it does show on the device!

Not a bad idea. Yeah, maybe you're right about amps. It's interesting, but not very useful. And I now realize what I really want to see: last mean-wattage. Wait... Mean power DOES exist in the DM. Wow, how did I miss that. Now if Evolv can get that showing on the device, as one of the field options, I'd be delighted.

On my EFusion, it is possible to see while vaping if you hold it right. Also, it can be fired without airflow, just to get a ballpark value. I'm not sure if the DNA 200 compensates for its own 90% efficacy rating, when showing amps. It would have to for calculating wattage and temp at the coil accurately, but maybe not for the display. That's a good question. Yeah, I bet the value is the post-90%. So, maybe add another 10% to that value to know what's really hitting the battery. Either way, it's close enough for me.

Yeah, I used the EScribe software to switch the line that normally shows voltage, to show current (total amps draw on the battery that the coil is asking for at that moment in time, all cells combined). The value is real-time and in line with what I'd expect, so I think it's accurate and showing what's hitting the battery pack, as a whole. Also, the values match what's shown in the Device Monitor, so it's got to be the real deal. It's pretty darn nice. I think I'm gonna keep it like this. Seeing voltage values never really spoke to my sensibilities. So cool that we can do this.

I switched the line that normally shows voltage, to current (amps) and feel it's a bit more informative as to what's going on under the hood; the absolute draw from the battery. With wattage and temperature being shown, is there really any value in seeing the volts being pushed, or is it just a holdover from pre-wattage regulation days? My thinking here is that as the voltage drops with battery depletion, the amps need to increase to maintain the same wattage / temperature (physics), so amps seem more non-intuitive than voltage, as voltage is linear with battery level. Amps are more of a real-time calculation that's hard to imagine in one's head. Since the amps are less intuitive, across battery drain, it might be better to show that on the display. For battery safety monitoring, as well. Thoughts?

While accurate, absolute temperature is obviously the goal, it seems some problematic wire types, like SS, are more about dialing it in until the wattage averages around where the user knows it should be, for a particular build. I'm seeing situations where 5 degree increments (or even 1 degree) would translate to hitting a sweet spot that appears to be currently out of reach. It would of course default to how it is now with 10 degree detents and therefore be on option in EScribe similar to "swap up/down." Probably, just an integer value that defaults to 10. There would need to be some edge-case logic on the bottom and top ranges to allow it to hit those values and not go over, of course.

Well, I lowered by build to .5 ohms with 28 awg SS 316L - my thinking is less wraps might lower the inaccuracy this wire is giving, rather than amplify it. Edit: It seems my thinking was wrong; doing the opposite (a higher ohm build) should give more accurate results, if I'm understanding this post: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/tc-beyond-ni200-nickel-purity-dicodes-ti-ss-resistherm-nife30-coefficient-of-resistance.676506/page-61#post-16440202 I'm using Evolv's EFusion profile with wattage cranked to 200W and seem to get a steady vape at around 500F. I think it's working better, behavior-wise, than the custom profile I was using with wattage set to 40W (near the 20W target wattage that should be pushed to the coil, after all is said and done). I don't think it's accurate, temperature-wise (with my wire at least), but rather than fight it, for now, I'm going to accept it. 500F - 520F it is. It's awesome we at least have the tools, uploadability and options to find a solution; unlike my Snow Wolf 200W, which can't do SS and never will (not upgradable).

Great points, Gm. I didn't read closely enough to catch it was Evolv's file. So, unquestionably it's accurate. Yeah, you're right, the SS alloys (mine in particular) is the question. Well, one more question, for Evolv: If I'm getting a decent vape (albeit mild) with Ni200 at, say 430F on just about every TC mod out there, including the DNA 200, should I get a comparable vape with SS at 430F (if using your exact wire)? If so, then it's got to be my wire. If not, then my expectations for SS are wrong-headed. And a question for the group: Is anyone getting a decent "mild to moderate" vape in the 400 to 450F range on SS using this, or the Steam SS profile? Btw, to clarify, the anemic vape I'm getting at 450F on these profiles equates to about a 5 watt vape, as shown in the Device Monitor. So, too weak a vape by just about any standard. As in, a tiny wisp of vapor, like one's breath when cold outside.

I appreciate the work on the EFusion profile, but the SS profile included is just as anemic and erratic as the Steam-Engine one. At around 400 to 450F, a temperature range I know and prefer, every small to medium build, on every atty I have, with two different types of SS 316L wire, with all wattages and pre-heat punch configurations, setting at cold ohms properly, using the Atomizer Analyzer to ensure it's stable and at the ohms it's set to, etc. The only one that's working is a user created one. Using the EFusion and Steam SS profiles, I have to crank up the temp to 550 before it even starts to get there. What am I (and some others, apparently) doing wrong? I'm assuming someone at Lost Vape spent considerable time on the SS profile. I have to ask, specifically, what build (details) gave the tester(s) a good vape? I'm starting to think it must be massive builds, large gauges, dual builds, with very high wattages that are being tested with these profiles, where the brute force of a large build is masking the inaccuracy of the profile (if it's indeed inaccurate). Lost Vape, I lost my vape. (sorry, that was terrible.) Absolutely love the EFusion mod, itself.

At least the EScribe Device Monitor is very accurate as to the vape. When it's a good vape, you can see it on the graph, and vice versa. Using this as a guide, I lowered the Wattage so that it was close the target I knew I needed to be at. This would deliver the desired, smooth vape after about 2 seconds. I then used the preheat punch to dial in a fast, but still smooth ramp up. Everything is really great, for now. In my case, for .62 ohm 316L 7 wrap, 28 gauge on 2mm bit, this ended up being 20 watts, 410F with a preheat of 30W, 1 second long, 9.8 punch and with your v4 SS curve. There is wisdom in how Evolv set this up, you just have to work with the physics of the coil and not fight it. You can't just set a high wattage and hope for a one-size-fits all profile (well, the wattage is easy to change on the device, as needed, I guess). This is why we really need more profiles. I suspect this will only work for this build and repeats of it. I'll report back on how this profile scales to other SS builds.

Literally everything you just said is EXACTLY what I do, too. Haha. Everything; the tightness, combing the ends, re-triming after the comb, shorter cotton leads, spacing, 90 degree bend to prevent hot legs.

The one I'm testing at the moment is the Silo Beast (with the shorty tank section). Beautiful tank. The coil is an atlantis-compatible Saucecode RBA with custom-made coil. SS 316L, 28 Guage, 7 wrap on a 2mm bit. Around 0.62 ohms.

At the moment, your v4 with preheat disabled is delivering the best vape. How long that lasts, has yet to be seen. This is another reason I wish we had more than 8 profiles. I'd like to dedicate more to just SS variations.

Thanks, you're really on to something with disabling preheat punch. 3.125 didn't seem to win, yet, but more testing is required. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion locking ohms may be required with this particular atomizer. The Atomizer Analyzer suggests it's stable, but I can't seem to keep it stable in actual use.

Another thing I can't explain: A tank at 1/4 full, but still well about the coil intake ports, will be a weak vape on SS. I'll top it off with e-liquid and that small a temperature change will suddenly make the vape strong again. But the live ohms on the analyzer doesn't seem to change. Very, very touchy, SS is. But when it's working, it's nice.

Thanks, David. Excellent. Please do post the 3.125, I'd like to give it a try. I've been tweaking the values on my own, too, but it's a game of wack-a-mole. Amazing how small the values need to be to affect huge differences in the vape. It's great that we have the ability to do this ourselves in the DNA 200, it seems no mod maker, with pre-build values, or simple, single TCR values has nailed it yet.

David, thanks a ton for your work on your v3.25 SS profile. It's the only profile of many I've acquired that delivers a smooth vape in my build. (And why the heck aren't these other profiles from Steam, Lost Vape, etc. working well? Is it a raw data issue, a DNA 200 issue? Maybe my SS wire has an unconventional mix?)

I saw your other post, thanks. Yeah, that doesn't sound RAM related. It just sounds like they created a fixed size for holding data points for curves for the features that use curves. Which makes sense, as allowing for more breakpoints on a curve has diminishing returns. I suspect there is enough general RAM remaining for, at the very least, "small" features like the one I'm suggesting. Small, because the code to get real-time Ohms values already exists. It's likely just a function call (reuse). Enough RAM, because it's already been explained, by Evov in another post, that there is still a "fair amount" left for new features.

Thanks. Interesting. That sounds more like an arbitrary, self-imposed, limit for a coding construct to hold points on a curve (curves used in various places). I'm pretty sure that's not RAM related, for new features, in general. As for more profiles, it sounds like it may be artificially limited by whatever construct is holding those curve points. They could probably allocate more space for them, but how much, remains a mystery.