Landscape Color 1.0.5Black

V1.0.3 - Replaying with Temp Control:

If I have a working temperature control - why should I use REPLAY? (Apart from the fact that I activated two competing control techniques in this constellation)

4 hours ago, CMK aka gwyar said:

V1.0.3 - Replaying with Temp Control:

If I have a working temperature control - why should I use REPLAY? (Apart from the fact that I activated two competing control techniques in this constellation)

Excuse my English ☺️

I asked myself the same question, it is a mystery 😁 !  there are some posts,  here in the forum about it, and it looks that there is not a consensus about it.

Personally I don't see those features as competing control techniques, I see them as complementing features. I regularly vape with Temp Control, all my mods are very well calibrated (internal resistance) with a copper "blind" 510 connector, and most of the time I use regular round wire coils with TEMCo 316L Stainless Steel wire, with great results. Sometimes I enable replay when vaping with Temp Control and in my experience I get a better vape, like smoother and constant, definitely better than if I use Replay the "normal" way (only Watts). I do not know if it is a placebo effect, but I feel I get a better vape experience overall.

I guess is a thing of each one experimenting with it, and decide by yourself, the good thing is that the option is there, so it doesn't hurt to put it available in the theme.

It would be great to know how that combination works technically, what takes precedence over what and how they complement each other... Maybe with Temp Control Replay could have more data about the puff?

There are some other interesting things, for example, using Replay (classic mode: watts with TC sensing material), Replay has "Warmth" and when in Watts mode, you can use the "Boost" feature, how those two features complement each other?

Or to add another complication, TC Mode with replay, now you have "Warmth" and "Preheat" (which uses a Preheat Temp and Preheat Power).

So many options to experiment ! That is why I love DNA "C" chips. A well calibrated mod with the proper TFR curve or TCR (if there is not a csv file for the material) works really, really well.

Here are some posts about it, that I found interesting:

On 10/22/2018 at 2:56 PM, Coyote said:

TC+Replay gives really good results. Here's why:

Say you have something that takes a lot of power like dual 26ga NiFethal coils, 0.12 ohm, wants 75-100 watts. You set them up in a TC profile that is replay capable, set your temperature and preheat, etc... Get a good puff limited to 450 F or whatever you want. Now save that puff. Replay will try to follow the resistance curve it recorded. That will let the power and temperature vary somewhat, but it will still stay near the temp you set on the saved puff because it is controlling the resistance during firing... but with the more power-focused tuning of Replay.

Yes, TC alone will keep the temp and resistance rock-steady, but that's not always what you want. I like how replay will cut or boost the power to a greater degree than straight TC. I've found that when you are taking lighter puffs, TC just kind of cooks the juice onto the coils and you get a lot of dried-up gunk. Replay won't do that, it cuts the power. 

Replay alone: You can get dry hits if the wick was too dry when you saved the puff.

TC alone: Can still cook your juice if you're not puffing hard enough for the build

Replay+TC solves both of those problems.

 

On 4/29/2018 at 5:01 PM, James said:

@ruckus, your initial impression is correct.

Replay will play back whatever the original puff was. If the original puff was Watts mode, it will do that. The original puff wasn't a dry hit, so Replay will try to make sure the new puff isn't either.

(If, on the other hand, you really like dry hits, you can Save Puff on one, and it will be happy to repeat that for you too. )

Our default theme uses Replay in a Watts material profile. If you vape power controlled this is an easy step up to temperature protection.

(Yes, you can play back a temperature mode puff if you want, but then it's not as easy to use. Some people find it works better for finicky temperature-sensing coils, but it's a big gain for power controlled vapers mainly.)

 

On 5/1/2018 at 3:29 AM, Revolver said:

So far...

We know that Replay makes natural sense with Power Mode. OTOH, it seems it could work with TC Mode as well, and here is where the conundrum lies...! nagaraka was wondering what the difference/s between these TWO OPTIONS was/were, TECHNICALLY; whether there were pros and cons to each, etc...

I guess this is indeed interesting...!

Nevertheless, everyone is getting side-tracked here and either trying to clarify he SHOULD go Power mode, or maybe he COULD go TC but mmm... Bottom line, he knows his options BUT he is wondering what the (technical) reasons behind the magic are..!

Me too... I guess we all are!!!

I know it comes as a natural thing to instinctively try to fill him in, sort of calling him off, along the lines of: You shouldn't be asking that question, and it is this or that way.. It is human nature after all to go under the impression we have everything figured out, but I guess it would be more constructive to FOCUS on the fact that, despite getting the gist of it as we try it, it still is mysterious to ALL OF US... And something that needs to be further explored...!

Thus, instead of trying to explain something none of us fully make sense of yet, maybe @James could fill us in a bit more on the backdrop... For instance, some interesting questions:

1. How is The Replay System working as to replicate the overall features of a given drag? Which are its main mechanisms? It seems experience-oriented, so to speak, is that right? And is so, how come...!?

2. We know it is very different from TC but how would you, temperature-wise, conceptuallize such difference?

3. If paired with TC, how would this be different from its Power Mode use, for the most part, in light of what one could achieve...?

4. If one has Boost feature on in Power Mode when Playing, how does Replay Mode integrate the Boost level; will it take into account this 'indirectly', based on its effects in the sample-drag or would both features (Boost and Replay) work at a similar priority level, in the sense that one could even change the level of boost for pre-heat during Playing? 

4 Bis. Along these lines, if one changes the level of Warmth during a Playing session, say on-the-go, how will this affect the overall experience compared to having started off at the new level to begin with? Meaning, I have a value of 5 for Warmth but during Playing I change at some point to 7... Will this be to practical effects, virtually as if I had started with 7 or having started 7 may translate into a different replicated form of a drag compared to selecting 7 later on?

I know that Replay is a plug-and-play ready-to-go type of feature, but some of us are still curious on some details to it and what the secrets behind its black magic are...! So, let us go for a peep...! Pleeeeease, James!

PS: Just to further clarify, and avoid any misconceptions: I know that Replay is thought of and indeed works as a very easy to use feature. Very simple in practice, yet, its overwhelming nature must be complex, and thus many of us are surrounded by doubts... Not because it is tricky to use, yet for its paradoxical nature... After all it seems to be doing something impossible...! Again, how come it is even possible to begin with; not even the occasional virgin sacrifice many of us old school vapers  offer to Vaping Gods of Consistency has ever paid off in such a crazy fashion, what is your secret Evolve...? SPEAK! 😃

Here are the links of the posts I quoted above, there are some interesting theories / experiences with TC and Replay:

 

first of all: my english is exclusively due to the google translator...

I am very pleased that you took my criticism to heart and delved very deeply, looking for the basics for a long time. My statements about the competition between the two systems were based on memories of a past discussion, which I unfortunately couldn't find anymore.
Because of this, I have now again carried out tests and graphical evaluations.

Contrary to the earlier discussion, I have to concede today that the two control systems do NOT seem to compete, but that REPLAY clearly dominates, lying above temperature control.

As can be seen from the second graphic, it makes no sense to change the target temperature when replay is activated - which you have also prevented in your theme (as far as I understood your description correctly)

Edited March 16, 2022 by CMK aka gwyar

Regarding WARMTH:

As far as I can see, the set power (watts) for the DNA chipset ALWAYS represents the maximum output power - regardless of whether in TC or REPLAY mode (boost and preheat are a separate topic).
 For example, if you're using an RDA and storing a puff on relatively dry cotton, the performance on newly wetted cotton won't be enough to achieve the same result. With "Warmth" you have the possibility to provide more power.
However, since this has sometimes led to VERY bad results (for me), I have been allowing a correction of the (maximum) power in my themes for some time, even after saving.

I WANT TO SAY AGAIN THAT I ABSOLUTELY DESERVE YOUR PRESENT WORK! GREAT JOB.

12 hours ago, CMK aka gwyar said:

I WANT TO SAY AGAIN THAT I ABSOLUTELY DESERVE YOUR PRESENT WORK! GREAT JOB.

Thanks to you !

Really great information you wrote above, I found it out pretty interesting and enjoyable reading.

It is always great to find people with the same interests 😊