thelateoctober
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Posts posted by thelateoctober
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Update - after two more discharge / charge cycles and an additional 36 hours on the charger cell 2 is up to 4.01v. My main concern is this - when I got it it stopped at 3.2v. After some cycles and charger time got it to 3.6. Ran one cycle and it only came back to 3.2. I'm worried that I leave it on the charger for a week to get to 4.2, then run a cycle and it comes back low again. I mean breaking in a battery shouldn't take a month but I'm far from an expert. Anyway, just an update.
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1 minute ago, Wayneo said:
Well, voltages are a sorta tricky thing. See what you said here
So after a puff when the cell has recovered (just sitting there) we'll call the standing/unloaded voltage, and cell 2 shows 3.1 volts, yes it drops power while increasing the amps, If that's what your soft cell value is. You should be getting a 'weak battery' or flashing depending on what you set in escribe. As soon as cell 2 hits the hard coded minimum volts the mod won't fire and you get a 'check battery'. I thought you were already at 3.98 volts this morning? I'd let it sit there and charge until it's balanced.
Yep I went until I got flashing. The guy from Maxamps said to run another cycle or two, giving plenty of time to just sit on the charger in between. I'll give that a go and see how it turns out.
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1 hour ago, Wayneo said:
Yup, that's how balance charging works. Painfully slow. IIRC it'll raise 1&3 to like 4.21 then drop them to 4.19, raise 2 a bit. Rinse and repeat for a long time.
From the top of my head, looking at the board battery negative pad, that 1st jst pin is a ground, then cell 1, 2, 3. But I'd wait for @dwcraig1 to validate that. It should show a lower voltage.
One other question - when cell 2, the low one, is hitting the cutoff at 3.1 the other two still have 0.4v give or take,, the battery meter still shows 6% and the mod still fires, just not at full power. Should I continue using it to get those other two down to 3.1 or do I need to stop?
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13 minutes ago, dwcraig1 said:
If DNA250 it should be the two center ones.
#2 positive and #1 negitive for cell #2 connection
Awesome, thank you. I'm not positive I have any solid wire small enough, but if I tin some of my 24g that should work. Also might have a couple of the ground connectors that go around the 510, those would probably work too.
I'm gonna continue with the recommendations from the Maxamps guy for now - if it gets to a point where in just over it il9ise this method. Thank you!
One other question, I'll ask Wayne too - when cell 2, the low one, is hitting the cutoff at 3.1 the other two still have 0.4v give or take,, the battery meter still shows 6% and the mod still fires, just not at full power. Should I continue using it to get those other two down to 3.1 or do I need to stop?
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4 minutes ago, Wayneo said:
Yup, that's how balance charging works. Painfully slow. IIRC it'll raise 1&3 to like 4.21 then drop them to 4.19, raise 2 a bit. Rinse and repeat for a long time.
From the top of my head, looking at the board battery negative pad, that 1st jst pin is a ground, then cell 1, 2, 3. But I'd wait for @dwcraig1 to validate that. It should show a lower voltage.
Painful is right. That’s exactly what it’s doing when I watch on eScribe. 1 and 3 bounce around 4.19-4.21 with less than 1 amp input current. The only thing that’s bothering me really is that it will go ‘idle’ for long periods where it is not drawing any current at all - just flat zero on usb current.
But I did just speak to the guy from Maxamps, their customer service is top tier. He said it’s frustrating that it’s taking this long to balance out, but should eventually, with no negative effect on the overall or lifetime performance of the battery. So if I have to do this for a week or whatever I’m fine with it as long as the battery is fine in the end. And I’m confident if it doesn’t that they will replace the pack.
Thanks again for the help.
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4 hours ago, dwcraig1 said:
The battery in my post had been hooked up to a small hobby charger and an expensive one with no results.
So just what is your concern with my recomended method?
Did you solder tabs or something to the ends of the wires going into the charger? How did you get the other end into the JST? I feel like stripping a good enough amount and tinnijg it would be good enough, but I'd be interested to hear how you did it.
Also - if I'm trying to charge cell 2, I'm going to be using (starting nearest the battery negative) the 2nd hole as my negative and 3rd hole as positive, correct?
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4 hours ago, Wayneo said:
How did you do those 3 discharges down to 3.1volts? Did you look at cell voltages at that time, and do you remember what each voltage was?
Being wired serially, IMHO only cell 2 would have been 3.1 volts. Cell 1 and 3 should have been that ~.4volts higher.
Maybe use a multimeter and check each cells voltage manually (via the white jst connector) and report back. Is this all new wiring and connectors?
Like @dwcraig1 already said, it could take days plugged in for the mod to rebalance, if at all. I really don't understand your apprehension with his idea. By using a proper 18650 charger it would follow the proper charging protocols and cut off for that 1 cell.
Morning.
Update - I woke up this morning with cell 2 at 3.98, 0.05v higher than I've seen it yet. So somethings happening, I guess? I'm going to reach out to Maxamps and get their opinion as well.
I discharged by using it. I did not record exact values of cells 1 and 3 when cell 2 hit 3.1, but yes, they were ~0.4v higher.
I'll whip out the multimeter after I've had some coffee and double check.
As fast as that charging method, using painters tape to stick balance wires to a juice bottle and stuff it in an 18650 charger doesn't scream battery safety at me. I understand what is being done and that there is probably nothing to worry about, and if I end up with no other options I will do it... But I also feel like I should not have to do that with a brand new battery from Maxamps.
Thank you for your reply and help!
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On 2/26/2023 at 11:37 AM, dwcraig1 said:
It has to reduce the cells that are full charge in order to bring up the low one, this is done with very smal resistors.
So after three full discharge to 3.1 and full charge cycles I'm still seeing the same thing. Cells 1 and 3 at 4.2, cell 2 at 3.92-3.93. I've tried a recovery charge after each cycle, which does nothing. Any other ideas what might be going on here? I've built tons of these with lots of different brands of batteries, to see this from a Maxamps is really weird, and for escribe to also just stop charging completely at this point is also very weird, I've never seen anything like it. Literally zero input current, whether connected to escribe and device monitor, or via the normal usb I use, having changed display while charging to show individual cell voltages. The charging icon just goes away and it sits there at 3.9.
I spoke with a guy from Maxamps this morning, he suggested the multiple charge and discharge but with no change I'll reach out again in the morning.
The other option is forking out cash, at least as much as the battery cost, for a balance charger that will recover that individual cell. I feel like I shouldn't have to do that. Anyway, any other thoughts or ideas? I'm impressed with your ingenuity with your solution but it's not something I'm willing to try.
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6 minutes ago, dwcraig1 said:
There is an option under the Tools tab / Diagnostics/ USB Recovery that will prompt balance charging.
4 minutes ago, dwcraig1 said:It has to reduce the cells that are full charge in order to bring up the low one, this is done with very smal resistors.
Zero usb current, cells 1 and 3 bouncing between 4.20 and 4.21 as they have been, cell 3 just chilling at 3.91. It's been exactly 3.91 since I first connected it hours ago. Pack voltage still 12.32.
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1 minute ago, dwcraig1 said:
There is an option under the Tools tab / Diagnostics/ USB Recovery that will prompt balance charging.
I'll give it a shot quick
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It just dropped from 67 to 66 while plugged in. That's not charging.
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4 minutes ago, dwcraig1 said:
That's the balance charging doing it's slow thing. If you can implement what I posted it will get it up in like an hour. Once balanced use EScribe to see that cell #2's voltage drop when firing heavy load matches up with cell #1 &3.
If not then maybe defective.
I'm just having a hard time believing 0.008 amps is charging. That's like enough to replace the power the screen draws while on and plugged it. And 99% of the time it's at zero. The board thinks it's full and isn't charging it at all.
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3 minutes ago, dwcraig1 said:
What were the 3 voltages when you first installed it?
Whatever Maxamps ships at, around 3.5.
It's not charging, USB current bouncing from 0.000 to 0.008 and back.
I've installed dozens of lipos and have never heard of one taking multiple days to balance charge.
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4 minutes ago, dwcraig1 said:
It appears to be balance charging, it's a slow process. It should get there eventually.
It was on the charger for 8 hours at least. Once it hits 66% the charging icon disappears. And just shows the battery. Like it thinks it's full. Photo is on the charger, with icon not showing charging. It is balance charging, yes, but that cell won't go over 3.9.
How long should I expect a 2250mah pack that arrived balanced to fully charge all 3 cells to 4.2v? Thanks for the help!
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Put a new battery in this mod, Maxamps 2250 3s, 25 watt hours. Had it on the charger all night last night, this morning battery says 66%. 2 cells show 4.2, one shows 3.9, and pack charge is 16 Wh.
What gives? Did I get a battery with a dead cell? Are my settings messed up? Never had this problem.
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I'm just going to buy some shims to put between the holder and the enclosure and call it a day.
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3 minutes ago, dwcraig1 said:
Alpintech sell two different actuator button lengths.
It's the 1.5mm flange on the inside that's the problem, not the length of the switch.
E: actuator, not switch
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So I'm rebuilding an old mod. Upgraded from 200 to 250. I've got a Hammond 1t90b enclosure. Wall dimensions are as they should be, 2mm. I got actuators from Alpinetech, 1.5mm flange. I'm test fitting the board into the enclosure to measure power/ground in and out. With the board snapped into the holder (also Alpinetech), and the actuators in their holes, when I press the holder flush against the enclosure wall as it would be when installed, all of the actuators are depressed enough that all 3 onboard buttons are depressed. I can't figure out what is going on. This is not my first build by any means, not my first 200 to 250 conversion, and I've never seen this problem.
I will say - when I first took it apart, the screen was attached to the board mount with a piece of double sided foam tape probably 2mm thick, so sticking out from the board mount rather than being flush like normal. The actuators also had very thin, maybe 0.5mm plates on the back of each, adding additional length to the actuators.
I have no idea what this guy did or what is going on. Does anyone have any insight here? Thanks in advance.
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Yep, all I really want is an accurate icon - because it's cutting off at 0% when there is a not insignificant amount of usable charge left. Thanks!
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35 minutes ago, Wayneo said:
Can you post a full Device Monitor printscreen for starters. Also, at the end of the day, you ought to run the 'battery analyzer' to get a valid curve for it
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Give me a minute for the device monitor, eScribe doesn't want to recognize it now.
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I just built a mod with a Maxamps 2800mAh 4s 100c battery. I'm at 2% battery right now. Hooked it up to device monitor and taking a drag - 111 watts, dual mesh coils at .12, 6-7 second drags - cell voltage is only dropping to ~3.5, well above cutoff. I'm not a battery expert - but I feel like I can be getting more out of this battery. Should I just be happy where it's at, or is there a way for me to modify the curve to give me that extra life? Thanks in advance.
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plugged old battery back in and it works fine. Possibly a shit battery?
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Replaced an old lipo with a new one. Exact same brand and model. Unplugged pressing the fire button the screen only flashes once and goes out. Plugged in and connected to escribe shows cell 2 pretty low. Also not showing any USB power or current. I'm confused, because all I did was replace thr battery. Applied most up to date service packs already.
New battery not charging fully
in Installation and Assembly
Posted
Final update - sent Matt at Maxamps the same info above, and they are replacing the cell. I may try the method you guys suggested to recover the pack and have a spare. Thanks again for the advice.