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I'm trying to get a good TC experience with my new DNA75C (first one I've ever owned). I seem to get more accurate flavor from wattage mode, and I'm really frustrated because I don't know how to remedy this.

 

Atomizer: BP Mods Pioneer RTA. 1.2mm Airflow  (I have other atomizers, but for the sake of simplicity, I'm focusing on this one)

Current Coil --->  2.5mm 6/7 wrap 28 gauge SS316L

Juice: 35mg Vape100 Ripe Iced Peachy Mango Pineapple 50/50 VG/PG 

Wick: Puffs Organic Cotton from Amazon (Also have Rayon, but focusing on cotton - again, for simplicity) 

 

 

I cleaned the threads inside the mod, and the threads on the atomizer.

I did a thermal case analyzer, which changed the values a substantial amount, but didn't notice much of a difference in flavor. 

Can anyone see anything wrong from these screenshots? Only thing I see wrong, now that I'm looking, is the room temp. My room temperature is 71F, not sure why it reads it as 77F... (Case Analyzer was calibrated with room temp at 71F).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DeviceMonitor.png

SS316L Profile.png

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Different flavorings will peek at different temperatures. Plus your graph shows you are going straight to 420°F from the get go. This isn't how wattage mode works. As wattage mode ramps up through a range of temperatures. Thus depending on the flavorings, you will likely be hitting different flavor peaks during the puff while going straight to 420°F won't.

The easy solution would be to just use Replay under wattage mode and to be done with it.

Although if you do want to continue with TC, I'd drop the wattage until you get that slower ramp up through the temperatures. And you can set TC higher than 420°F too. As up to 460°F is considered safe for vaping. It is true that above 420°F will singe dry cotton, but not true of wet cotton. By the way, you can also use Replay in TC too. That way once you get the temperature ramp up to your liking, you can lock it in with Replay. Otherwise a cold coil will ramp up differently than a warm coil without Replay.

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1 hour ago, BillW50 said:

Different flavorings will peek at different temperatures. Plus your graph shows you are going straight to 420°F from the get go. This isn't how wattage mode works. As wattage mode ramps up through a range of temperatures. Thus depending on the flavorings, you will likely be hitting different flavor peaks during the puff while going straight to 420°F won't.

The easy solution would be to just use Replay under wattage mode and to be done with it.

Although if you do want to continue with TC, I'd drop the wattage until you get that slower ramp up through the temperatures. And you can set TC higher than 420°F too. As up to 460°F is considered safe for vaping. It is true that above 420°F will singe dry cotton, but not true of wet cotton. By the way, you can also use Replay in TC too. That way once you get the temperature ramp up to your liking, you can lock it in with Replay. Otherwise a cold coil will ramp up differently than a warm coil without Replay.

 

Thanks for the reply. I read that fruit flavors shine at lower temps, and I see most people suggest 420 to be the best temp for flavor. I did read a Vaporesso article saying the best flavor was upwards of ~480F, but I was weary about trying it, because I wasn't sure if my TC settings were even right / if it was working properly.  I usually vape Wattage mode at high-ish watts. For instance, this same coil that's using 11 watts for 420F, will generally be ran at about 15 watts in wattage mode. I prefer really short, cigarette-like drags. I have tried a little bit of replay mode, but I did want to perfect TC to keep my cotton/coils for as long as possible. I might circle back to it, but will probably land on replay mode within TC like you suggested.

Another problem I seem to be having is that the "last puff" graph on my mod (default theme) shows a different readout than my device monitor does. It'll tell me my last puff was 390, but on my device monitor, its showing 430ish. 

Also, Do people add/edit temperature points on the CSV from steam-engine, or do they just import them as-is? It really bothers me when I look at the points imported for SS316L -- how the last two numbers are just on top of each other. Something about it feels wrong

Edited by RealMcCoy
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That sounds about right for lower temps for fruit flavors. And it sounds like when you use wattage mode, you are vaping at higher than 420°F. Maybe that is why you like the flavor better?

By the way, Replay under wattage mode will also give you dry hit protection. So no worries there.

The CSV files from steam-engine are calibrated curves based on the material. If you change them it will no longer be calibrated. You could create a calibrated one yourself with the right equipment. As for willy-nilly changing one, I don't know why you would. It most likely wouldn't vape right.

As for the puff counter. Well there are a number of puff counters in the DNA. There is a resettable one, a non-resettable, a TC one, and maybe more. And the one in the graph never seems to match any of them (it is always a bit higher). I am not sure why that is. Someone might know.

I do have one DNA250C that I never fired and I bought it as a spare and EScribe says it has 0 puffs on it. I never seen one with 0 puffs before, as they always come with a few on them. I should check to see what the graph says, eh?

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Also what do you mean about the CSV file that the last two numbers are on top of one another? Here is the CSV file for SS316L.

"Temperature (degF)","Electrical Resistivity"
-40.0000,0.9347440000
68.0000,1.0000000000
122.0000,1.0300000000
212.0000,1.0800000000
302.0000,1.1260000000
392.0000,1.1680000000
482.0000,1.2070000000
572.0000,1.2460000000

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Oh yeah, I forgot to mention about the room temperature. Remember the (DNA) room sensor is on the board. And the board is inside of the mod with very few vents. And inside it gets heat from the 510 (atomizer firing), the board, and the batteries. So inside of the box it is likely going to be a bit warmer than the room temperature. So that explains that one. But it is close enough to work well with TC and Replay. As it takes the room temperature into account with coil temperature.

Edited by BillW50
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8 hours ago, BillW50 said:

The easy solution would be to just use Replay under wattage mode and to be done with it.

⬆ This, right there. 

8 hours ago, BillW50 said:

Although if you do want to continue with TC, I'd drop the wattage until you get that slower ramp up through the temperatures.

Or just turn off preheat

7 hours ago, RealMcCoy said:

I usually vape Wattage mode at high-ish watts.

What do you consider high-ish watts?

6 hours ago, BillW50 said:

As for the puff counter. Well there are a number of puff counters in the DNA. There is a resettable one, a non-resettable, a TC one, and maybe more. And the one in the graph never seems to match any of them (it is always a bit higher). I am not sure why that is. Someone might know.

I think he's talking about temps, not puffs. I don't believe any board has ever had a room sensor. There is a board sensor however. The 'room temp' is calculated/derived by looking at the mod state. Plugged in/not, charging, etc. There's more details if you hover over those 5 Case values.

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2 hours ago, Wayneo said:

I think he's talking about temps, not puffs. I don't believe any board has ever had a room sensor. There is a board sensor however. The 'room temp' is calculated/derived by looking at the mod state. Plugged in/not, charging, etc. There's more details if you hover over those 5 Case values.

RealMcCoy I believe is talking about the graph on the DNA75C screen that is called Puff Info on the default theme. You can page back to like the last 400 puffs. And each one is numbered. The last one is a number higher than the non-resettable puff counter.

I am pretty sure the board sensor is in the processor (or some other high heat component) and the room sensor is a sensor on the board. I could be wrong though.

 

Edited by BillW50
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20 hours ago, BillW50 said:

Also what do you mean about the CSV file that the last two numbers are on top of one another? Here is the CSV file for SS316L.

"Temperature (degF)","Electrical Resistivity"
-40.0000,0.9347440000
68.0000,1.0000000000
122.0000,1.0300000000
212.0000,1.0800000000
302.0000,1.1260000000
392.0000,1.1680000000
482.0000,1.2070000000
572.0000,1.2460000000

Yeah, those are the values I use. I'm ashamed to admit I was viewing in windowed mode, and the points were only overlapping because they didn't have enough room on the screen to expand into the full graph lol. When I opened in full screen I realized how stupid I was

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19 hours ago, BillW50 said:

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention about the room temperature. Remember the (DNA) room sensor is on the board. And the board is inside of the mod with very few vents. And inside it gets heat from the 510 (atomizer firing), the board, and the batteries. So inside of the box it is likely going to be a bit warmer than the room temperature. So that explains that one. But it is close enough to work well with TC and Replay. As it takes the room temperature into account with coil temperature.

Do you suggest letting the mod sit for awhile before reading the resistance of new coils (Letting it get to room temp)?. Like if I'm vaping one atty, and I decide to switch to another. Should I wait for the mod to return to room temp, or does it not matter? Also, do you lock your ohms? I was reading the forms and some people say lock it, others say don't.

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15 hours ago, Wayneo said:

⬆ This, right there. 

Or just turn off preheat

What do you consider high-ish watts?

I think he's talking about temps, not puffs. I don't believe any board has ever had a room sensor. There is a board sensor however. The 'room temp' is calculated/derived by looking at the mod state. Plugged in/not, charging, etc. There's more details if you hover over those 5 Case values.

I like the instant fire at temp, though. I only take like 2-3 second puffs - pretty short. If I let the temp rise without any sort of preheat I feel like I wouldn't finish my puff before the desired temp was reached... Although I did just try it without preheat and there wasn't much of a difference -  idled around 410 instead of 420. I think 28g is just too thin to really care, but I also like to vape 26g. I think the heavier gauge would be effected more by no pre-heat. By high-ish watts I meant that while these 28g coils are vaping at 10 watts, steam-engine suggests 14, and I usually end up around 15-17 in wattage mode. This is probably why I was changing my cotton/coils every couple tanks (due to blackening), but I was getting good flavor for a short while. Lol. 

 

As BillW50 explained, I was talking about the puff info graph on the default theme. It shows a different wattage/temperature graph than the device monitor does

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27 minutes ago, BillW50 said:

Yes, let the coil cool down first, at least 15 minutes. 30 would be better. And no need to lock the ohms if connections are good.

ColdOhmTemp.png.ab2a9a2e81de81e36e25d4a49b6bd186.png

This is what I mean... It's a cold atomizer on a hot mod - so while it reads the ohm's correctly, it thinks that the reading is done at 82F? When the board cools further, will it adjust the ohms of the coil? Or is that not how it all works?

If that doesn't explain what I'm trying to ask - Let's say I had two of the same tanks with the same coil installed. I measure the ohms in the morning with both the board and the atty at room temp. It reads .7213 ohms, and 71 F. I vape on it for awhile, and decide to connect the other tank. It reads the same .7213 ohms, but now it says 82F. Will the vape be the same, or is the mod adjusting the vape for ambient temperature? 

 

I'm trying to figure out what just went wrong, because I just connected my Kayfun after vaping with my Pioneer, and the flavor is supremely lacking. I didn't let the mod cool, like in the example I listed above.

 

Edited by RealMcCoy
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Yes it will reread the cold resistance, so no worries there. Letting the mod cool down isn’t such a big deal, unlike the coil. Although it does affect it a bit.

Yes the Replay looks normal and slight different max temperatures is perfectly normal. Although once it hits the set temperature, the line should be fairly straight. So should the live resistance. Notice it is a bit wavy? This is usually a connection problem like a coil is not tight enough.

I remember pbusardo saying that Kayfun’s doesn’t have solid enough connections for TC. He said that years ago, so maybe that was back then. As mine seemed to do ok.

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It appears to me that you are trying to get your perfect puff in TC mode, it doesn't look like your getting a satisfactory puff to base Replay on.

Try this, set your profile to "Watts" then set your wattage and Boost and upload settings, Keep making adjustments  till you get that puff that you feel is right.

Use my profile snip as your guide.

Then save puff.

On my snip the test puff is on the left. look at the live ohms to note duration as it's hard to see as it is flat 20 watts.

Use Watt profile. use TC capable wire.

Setup for Replay.JPG

Replay in Watts mode.JPG

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10 hours ago, dwcraig1 said:

It appears to me that you are trying to get your perfect puff in TC mode, it doesn't look like your getting a satisfactory puff to base Replay on.

Try this, set your profile to "Watts" then set your wattage and Boost and upload settings, Keep making adjustments  till you get that puff that you feel is right.

Use my profile snip as your guide.

Then save puff.

On my snip the test puff is on the left. look at the live ohms to note duration as it's hard to see as it is flat 20 watts.

Use Watt profile. use TC capable wire.

Setup for Replay.JPG

Replay in Watts mode.JPG

I'll give that a go. I can't seem to get my wattage to flatline like that, or my live ohms. 510 is secured and coil is tightened down to the max. What coil are you using? 26g SS316L?

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18 minutes ago, RealMcCoy said:

I'll give that a go. I can't seem to get my wattage to flatline like that, or my live ohms. 510 is secured and coil is tightened down to the max. What coil are you using? 26g SS316L?

You mean temperature to flatline, right? Wattage is will automatically adjust to keep the temperature at the set value. Unless of course it is set low enough that it can't reach the set temperature, then it will give it all. Just like wattage mode. TC will just throttle the wattage to keep it from going higher than the set temperature.

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@RealMcCoy Could you post a snippet firing your coil in wattage mode with battery voltage also checked?

In this snippet I have unchecked the "set temperature" box to avoid any confusion. This is wattage with a little boost without using Replay.

 

 

wattage mode.JPG

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4 hours ago, BillW50 said:

You mean temperature to flatline, right? Wattage is will automatically adjust to keep the temperature at the set value. Unless of course it is set low enough that it can't reach the set temperature, then it will give it all. Just like wattage mode. TC will just throttle the wattage to keep it from going higher than the set temperature.

Yes, sorry

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2 hours ago, dwcraig1 said:

The coil used in my post is two strands of  28 gauge SS 430 twisted tightly with a drill and in a Kayfun Lite Plus.

Do you only twist it lightly to eliminate springiness? I can't do any twisted or even high gauge mtl fused claptons... they are just too springy for me to work with

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Not actually twisting it makes it stiffer. When I'm done twisting it I heat the length of it to a slight red. I torch all my wire prior to coiling (even Tii).

You could use a Bic lighter if necessary but be sure to dry fire with low wattage to burn off the black stuff.  

Twisted lightly really doesn't describe it, it's twisted pretty tight. This makes the 2 strands equal / near 26 gauge with lots of area for juice contact.

This photo is from a couple of years ago, I twist it a bit tighter nowadays.

 

tristed 28 ss430.jpg

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6 minutes ago, dwcraig1 said:

Not actually twisting it makes it stiffer. When I'm done twisting it I heat the length of it to a slight red. I torch all my wire prior to coiling (even Tii).

You could use a Bic lighter if necessary but be sure to dry fire with low wattage to burn off the black stuff.  

Twisted lightly really doesn't describe it, it's twisted pretty tight. This makes the 2 strands equal / near 26 gauge with lots of area for juice contact.

Hmm. I've tried twisting super tight with my drill and heating with my torch, I just can't eliminate springiness.

Here is the graph in wattage

 

Wattage.png

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