fonix232

DNA250C/75C USB Type-C upgrade?

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As the title says. Has anyone done it yet? Are there any information out there about the procedure?

I know that it does not add any extra features, won't enable USB Power Delivery, et cetera, but since most of my devices are Type-C already, it would be nice if I did not have to carry an extra charging cable on me.

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Just a thought.....USB to USC C adapters are small and that way you don't have to carry a separate cable.....

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29 minutes ago, retird said:

Just a thought.....USB to USC C adapters are small and that way you don't have to carry a separate cable.....

Except for the fact that this kind of conversion (converting a Type-C male to a different male, e.g. micro-B) is against the spec, and you won't find a reputable manufacturer that makes them. Actually, even after some extensive googling, I couldn't find an adapter that has male micro-B and female Type-C.

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38 minutes ago, retird said:

Yes it would - but as I said, it breaks the spec, and opens up the mod for more possible failures (e.g. using a Quick Charge or USB PD enabled charger could accidentally trigger higher voltage charging and kill the mod). That's why I'm rather looking for replacing the onboard connector with a female Type-C.

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So, are you saying the adapter could allow higher voltage charging from the on board charger and kill the on board charger and also kill the device?  Electronics is not my forte...

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OK..... I have used an adapter for a while now to convert C connector of my computer to USB and plug in a usb to micro usb cable to charge my DNA devices from my computer without any issues.... transfers data also.... so what I'm doing will kill my devices?  

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On 7/20/2018 at 5:18 PM, retird said:

OK..... I have used an adapter for a while now to convert C connector of my computer to USB and plug in a usb to micro usb cable to charge my DNA devices from my computer without any issues.... transfers data also.... so what I'm doing will kill my devices?  

No, because that's all along the spec. USB Type-C specification restricts the conversion of the male end to any other male plug directly. What you're doing is using a male-to-female adapter (which is well within the spec, see e.g. Type-C USB hubs that give you up to 6 USB A ports), and then using it as host.

What you're recommending here, though, is converting an existing male USB Type-C port into a male microUSB. This is a very case the specification made point of - you should NEVER do this. And because this is against the specs, manufacturers can't get it verified (i.e. they can't use the "USB-IF Approved" logos or the USB logo itself), thus most likely are lesser quality than desired.

Unfortunately lots of manufacturers ignore the requirements of Type-C, and push products that break the spec - which is not good because breaking the spec means unexpected behaviour, and it's especially dangerous for a port that does much, much more than just data transfer and charging.

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10 hours ago, fonix232 said:

No, because that's all along the spec. USB Type-C specification restricts the conversion of the male end to any other male plug directly. What you're doing is using a male-to-female adapter (which is well within the spec, see e.g. Type-C USB hubs that give you up to 6 USB A ports), and then using it as host.

What you're recommending here, though, is converting an existing male USB Type-C port into a male microUSB. This is a very case the specification made point of - you should NEVER do this. And because this is against the specs, manufacturers can't get it verified (i.e. they can't use the "USB-IF Approved" logos or the USB logo itself), thus most likely are lesser quality than desired.

Unfortunately lots of manufacturers ignore the requirements of Type-C, and push products that break the spec - which is not good because breaking the spec means unexpected behaviour, and it's especially dangerous for a port that does much, much more than just data transfer and charging.

OK I read your post.... so the adapters like the one I posted are available but not within specs but are being sold and used.... 

My question......  to use a type C connector on a DNA board wouldn't it require a new circuit board design and related firmware?  

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5 hours ago, retird said:

OK I read your post.... so the adapters like the one I posted are available but not within specs but are being sold and used.... 

My question......  to use a type C connector on a DNA board wouldn't it require a new circuit board design and related firmware?  

Not necessarily. If no extra features (such as Power Delivery, USB3.x speeds, etc.) are required,  a simple drop-in replacement board can be used - which pretty much just wires the USB2.0 lines (5V, GND, Tx and Rx) to the proper Type-C lines, and adds the appropriate resistors (Type-C uses quite a few safety measures, e.g. cable sensing, and even cables are authenticated for higher power use, etc. - all of this is not required for USB2.0, where these features are disabled by putting proper resistors between certain lines of the Type-C connector host). However no such design exists for the DNA75C/250C as of now.

The key difference between such a drop-in board and the adapter you're recommending is that while one can verify that the board is up to spec, they can't do so with an adapter that is already packaged. And most of these adapters are not up to spec. Unfortunately, the whole Type-C market was, for the past two years, a huge clusterfuck thanks to chinese manufacturers jumping on the bandwagon and spewing out incompatible products, endangering all the users.

What I hope for is that the next Evolv DNA board will be Type-C native.

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On 7/22/2018 at 3:26 AM, fonix232 said:

Not necessarily. If no extra features (such as Power Delivery, USB3.x speeds, etc.) are required,  a simple drop-in replacement board can be used - which pretty much just wires the USB2.0 lines (5V, GND, Tx and Rx) to the proper Type-C lines, and adds the appropriate resistors (Type-C uses quite a few safety measures, e.g. cable sensing, and even cables are authenticated for higher power use, etc. - all of this is not required for USB2.0, where these features are disabled by putting proper resistors between certain lines of the Type-C connector host). However no such design exists for the DNA75C/250C as of now.

The key difference between such a drop-in board and the adapter you're recommending is that while one can verify that the board is up to spec, they can't do so with an adapter that is already packaged. And most of these adapters are not up to spec. Unfortunately, the whole Type-C market was, for the past two years, a huge clusterfuck thanks to chinese manufacturers jumping on the bandwagon and spewing out incompatible products, endangering all the users.

What I hope for is that the next Evolv DNA board will be Type-C native.

I 100% agree with you and would love to see new DNA boards female USB Type-C native instead of the, slowly dying off, micro USB.

 

I charge my batteries (VTC5a's) externally. But still, would love a Type-C.

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hum.... I ponder about changing the DNA's to USB C.........  Manufacturers  of lots of  various products still use the same USB connector on every  new product they make.  Example is Apple.... Iphone - C connector, IPad - same and Apple has adapters to go from C connector to other types.....

Garmin makes GPS devices and all of them use the same Mini USB connector.... as they bring new ones to market they have the same connector....Samsung cell phones all use the micro-USB...

All my DNA's from each new board made over  all the years has the same micro USB connector....  

So what advantage is there with a C connector that would be beneficial to the DNA board that the micro USB doesn't have other than being able to use a C type USB cable?  I don't think there has been any major issues with charging or the transfer of data using a quality  micro USB cable.

I charge all 8 of my DNA's internally and would rather all DNA's have the same connector.

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58 minutes ago, retird said:

hum.... I ponder about changing the DNA's to USB C.........  Manufacturers  of lots of  various products still use the same USB connector on every  new product they make.  Example is Apple.... Iphone - C connector, IPad - same and Apple has adapters to go from C connector to other types.....

Garmin makes GPS devices and all of them use the same Mini USB connector.... as they bring new ones to market they have the same connector....Samsung cell phones all use the micro-USB...

All my DNA's from each new board made over  all the years has the same micro USB connector....  

So what advantage is there with a C connector that would be beneficial to the DNA board that the micro USB doesn't have other than being able to use a C type USB cable?  I don't think there has been any major issues with charging or the transfer of data using a quality  micro USB cable.

I charge all 8 of my DNA's internally and would rather all DNA's have the same connector.

Apple is sticking to Lightning because otherwise people would riot - lots of accessories made for that port, a sudden change would alienate their users (see the debacle with the Type-C only MacBooks, albeit that was a step in the right direction, there was also a huge backlash). In-car navigation manufacturers stick to MiniUSB for the same reason - lots of their customers have a well set up accessory system, and changing that is suicide.

On the other hand we're using the USB ports on our mods as receivers only, and since most phones, lots of laptops, and even other devices (e.g. Ubiquiti's Amplifi HD) already use Type-C, it would be a wise choice to switch to that on mods. Yihi already did that with the SX550J and SX580J, and it works just fine. The port is more durable, has wider protocol support (e.g. it could incorporate quick charging). MicroUSB needs to die sooner or later, and it would be preferable for everyone if it happened sooner. Change is inevitable, and TBH just sticking to micro-B because a few members "would rather all DNA's have the same connector" is a stupid decision.

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We can agree to disagree my friend.... I thought the DNA's transfer data back and forth but you say the USB ports are just receivers.... what do you mean by that?

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Just now, retird said:

We can agree to disagree my friend.... I thought the DNA's transfer data back and forth but you say the USB ports are just receivers.... what do you mean by that?

It means that you don't have accessories to connect to the mods. Sure, you can use them as a power bank, but that's it. And yes, they can transfer data back and forth, BUT the important part is that the DNA chips will always be slaves, never hosts. You can't connect a USB stick and copy your current config to it. You can't plug a DAC in it and play music. It never serves a purpose as a host, only as a slave.

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Oh I see, you want a DNA board to play music, connect a USB stick, and etc......  Why should DNA's be Host's.... they are just e-cig devices?  Does the device you mentioned that has a C-connector act as a Host?  

If Evolv decides to move to a C-connector then that's fine.... just means those with multiple devices now will have to buy another cable.... no big deal.... 

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19 minutes ago, retird said:

Oh I see, you want a DNA board to play music, connect a USB stick, and etc......  Why should DNA's be Host's.... they are just e-cig devices?  Does the device you mentioned that has a C-connector act as a Host?  

If Evolv decides to move to a C-connector then that's fine.... just means those with multiple devices now will have to buy another cable.... no big deal.... 

No, I do NOT want the DNA boards to play music or any other shit. Being a slave is perfectly fine. I don't even get why you're attacking this point of mine, since it's unimportant.

And yes, a few people have to USE the different cable that would be bundled with the device. But in a few years, every new device will have Type-C - heck, if you buy a phone today (that is not an iPhone), you have a roughly 80% chance of getting one with Type-C connector.

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I'm not attacking anything but just trying to understand your points and having a conversation with you....  As I said earlier we can agree to disagree and I said if Evolv wants to go to the C-connector then thats fine........ with that we can,  going forward, have a civil, and hopefully constructive, conversation and dialog .

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I got a couple of these magsafe style cables.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnetic-Lighting-Cable-3-Charging-Syncing/dp/B072NB6QTF

If my link gets removed due to me being new, just google magnetic usb cable. 

You get them with usb-c micro and lightning adapters. 

you just leave the magnetic part in the port. I did not find myself using them much though. When you have a variety of chargers/devices plus other family members in the house you need a lot of them and kind of defeats the objective of universality. I previously had a yihi sx550j mod which i 3d printed that has usb-c. I just bought my 1st dna mod after using yihi for years and would rather the new ones had usb-c too since it will be the standard in the future.   usb-pd would be great in a mod for larger battery setups. 

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3 minutes ago, Scote said:

I got a couple of these magsafe style cables.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnetic-Lighting-Cable-3-Charging-Syncing/dp/B072NB6QTF

If my link gets removed due to me being new, just google magnetic usb cable. 

You get them with usb-c micro and lightning adapters. 

you just leave the magnetic part in the port. I did not find myself using them much though. When you have a variety of chargers/devices plus other family members in the house you need a lot of them and kind of defeats the objective of universality. I previously had a yihi sx550j mod which i 3d printed that has usb-c. I just bought my 1st dna mod after using yihi for years and would rather the new ones had usb-c too since it will be the standard in the future.   usb-pd would be great in a mod for larger battery setups. 

I know these kind of cables. If I had to describe them in one word, it would be unsafe - especially if you employ some kind of quick charging (Samsung's, Qualcomm Quick Charge or OnePlus' Dash charge). First of all, most of the time the magnetic contacts are not rated to the current going through them, and can quickly overheat. Second, the connection is not 100% secure, small misalignments can happen, further limiting the current that can safely pass through. It's fine for mods that only use up to 5V@500-1000mAh from USB, but anything above is a fire hazard.

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