weak vape and aggressive temp protect issue

[jesseseetai]

hey everyone,
so i just got my first dna 75 mod and i'm getting a weak cool vape. i measured the mod resistance at .008 and uploaded the csv for Titanium 1 and SS 316L from steam engine.

i'm currently running a serpent mini with a .41 coil and it keeps hitting temperature protect immediately and is only giving it like like 7-8 watts. i have the temperature set to 260 C, watts at 22, preheat at 25 watts, punch at 6, and preheat for 1 second. I lowered the watts to 17, but i'm still getting the same issue.

i built it first with titanium wire and had the same issue. the wicking in the tank was done minimally so it shouldn't be a wicking issue.

any help is appreciated

[VapingBad]

I only use the built in materials profiles for Ti and 316 (I use it for 316L as well), your preheat is quite low and although that shouldn't cause a problem it will help an weak vape.  I would increase the punch a few notches and put the power to 40 to 50 W if your watts are at 25.  I have not used a serpent so don't know if they have a particularly high resistance, but the rout of your problem is likely reading the cold too high.  Also checking the connections are solid including battery, 510 and board/case grounding is worth trying.  Probably best to stick with Ti while sorting this out with it's higher TCR.

[jesseseetai]

VapingBad said:

I only use the built in materials profiles for Ti and 316 (I use it for 316L as well), your preheat is quite low and although that shouldn't cause a problem it will help an weak vape.  I would increase the punch a few notches and put the power to 40 to 50 W if your watts are at 25.  I have not used a serpent so don't know if they have a particularly high resistance, but the rout of your problem is likely reading the cold too high.  Also checking the connections are solid including battery, 510 and board/case grounding is worth trying.  Probably best to stick with Ti while sorting this out with it's higher TCR.

it was initially happening with the built in profiles, so thats why i decided to try the steam engine ones. is there somewhere i can get the originals back?

the reason i set the low preheat is because it was hitting temp protection so fast and aggressively.

it's funny you should say that, i took the atty off and reattached it to see if that would fix it. i recognized it as a new atomizer and i locked the resistance in at .48 instead of the original .44 (since i had vaped a little the resistance was higher) and now it's vaping much better and not hitting temp protect at all. weird. but isn't this the opposite of what you're saying?

also the mod is a VapeCige SD Mini 75

[VapingBad]

You should be able to get the profiles back just by selecting them, but they will be very similar.  I wouldn't lock res unless that is the only way to clear your problem.  Sorry yes cold res too high would cause it not to reach the temp limit, my bad.  Try setting your mod res back to 0.000, connecting the atty when cool and letting the board refine the resistance reading.  Have a few puffs and let it rest for ten mins, repeat this a few time and it tracks the resistance and the board temp as they cool to get a more accurate value.  If that doesn't do it, then it is checking the connections.

[jesseseetai]

VapingBad said:

You should be able to get the profiles back just by selecting them, but they will be very similar.  I wouldn't lock res unless that is the only way to clear your problem.  Sorry yes cold res too high would cause it not to reach the temp limit, my bad.  Try setting your mod res back to 0.000, connecting the atty when cool and letting the board refine the resistance reading.  Have a few puffs and let it rest for ten mins, repeat this a few time and it tracks the resistance and the board temp as they cool to get a more accurate value.  If that doesn't do it, then it is checking the connections.

you don't lock res when using it in TC mode? wouldn't that make the TC inconsistent since the res will be constantly changing?

what do you mean by let the board refine the resistance reading?

sorry for all the questions

[VapingBad]

Locking res is a last resort for connection problems, DNAs are smarter boards they track how the coils and board change temp as they cool and stabilise, this is known as refinement mode.  I only use res lock with one atty that has poor connections due to poorly machined threads in aluminium in the ground path, everything else I let the board work it out.  I have been doing that since Oct 14 with DNA 40, 200 & 75 and works great, but with non DNA boards (YiHi, IPV & Joyetec) I have often had to lock res to get them to work properly and consistantly.

[dwcraig1]

I think I'd be checking the mod's 510's connection to the the atty using atomizer analyzer, this sounds like maybe a poor connection between the mod's positive pin and the atty's positive pin. Or poor ground on the mod's 510. What mod is this?

[awsum140]

jesseseetai said:

it's funny you should say that, i took the atty off and reattached it to see if that would fix it. i recognized it as a new atomizer and i locked the resistance in at .48 instead of the original .44 (since i had vaped a little the resistance was higher) and now it's vaping much better and not hitting temp protect at all. weird. but isn't this the opposite of what you're saying?

also the mod is a VapeCige SD Mini 75

Let the mod sit for a while, say at least five minutes, unused, then try it again.  I suspect it will revert to low output.  I've been there, done that, and a lot more, with all the connection and grounding "tweaks".  I'm not saying that it can't be the case here, but think you might see that low output behavior return after the mod "rests" a bit.

[jesseseetai]

VapingBad said:

Locking res is a last resort for connection problems, DNAs are smarter boards they track how the coils and board change temp as they cool and stabilise, this is known as refinement mode.  I only use res lock with one atty that has poor connections due to poorly machined threads in aluminium in the ground path, everything else I let the board work it out.  I have been doing that since Oct 14 with DNA 40, 200 & 75 and works great, but with non DNA boards (YiHi, IPV & Joyetec) I have often had to lock res to get them to work properly and consistantly.

hmm interesting... well maybe i'll give that a try and see how it goes

[jesseseetai]

dwcraig1 said:

I think I'd be checking the mod's 510's connection to the the atty using atomizer analyzer, this sounds like maybe a poor connection between the mod's positive pin and the atty's positive pin. Or poor ground on the mod's 510. What mod is this?

it's the vapecige sd mini 75

[jesseseetai]

okay so i just went to use it after letting it sit for 2 hours. i hit the fire button and it gave me the new atomizer prompt. weird since i hadn't removed the atty. i hit yes for new atty and it read the coil at .46 res. i didn't lock it this time but it's still back to really fast temp protection and then only firing at around 10 watts

[awsum140]

That is the same behavior I have with mine.  The workaround, of course, is to "reset" by unscrewing the atty, firing, yadda, yadda, but that gets pretty old pretty fast.

[BillW50]

jesseseetai said:

okay so i just went to use it after letting it sit for 2 hours. i hit the fire button and it gave me the new atomizer prompt. weird since i hadn't removed the atty. i hit yes for new atty and it read the coil at .46 res. i didn't lock it this time but it's still back to really fast temp protection and then only firing at around 10 watts

It won't prompt if you don't remove the atty or the cold resistance doesn't change more than 25%. You can change the 25% value in EScribe's Mod (tab).

[dwcraig1]

0.41? to 0.46? is around 12.5%, it should have remembered it.

[jesseseetai]

awsum140 said:

That is the same behavior I have with mine.  The workaround, of course, is to "reset" by unscrewing the atty, firing, yadda, yadda, but that gets pretty old pretty fast.

i don't think it has anything to do with resetting it. i think if i would have chosen to keep the same atty it would be vaping fine. i think the issue is just that it's reading the cold resistance as too low.

[jesseseetai]

dwcraig1 said:

0.41? to 0.46? is around 12.5%, it should have remembered it.

oh you know what, i changed my value to 6% ... i thought it would be better to use a lower value because 25% seemed high to me. do most of you guys just leave it at 25%?

[jesseseetai]

update

so i built an SS coil in my Narda (authentic). put it on the mod and it read the ohms at .63. it was vaping good but i noticed it was only hitting a temp of 135 C and i have the temp set to 240 C and it's running at 22 watts. i thought 135 C seemed a bit low, so i hooked it up to escribe and did the atomizer reading and let it sit for a while and it was showing the raw ohm as .587 ... so i did "override ohms" and put it in at .587 and now it's vaping great.

when i initially put the Narda on it was completely cold, i had just finished building it. so my question is, why would it initially read at .63?

[VapingBad]

That's refinement working out it was .587 and you shouldn't need to override ohms if that is what is on the screen when idle.  IDK exactly why, but would guess that it is either resistance in the atty and connections or less likely the mod was cooler than the atty at first.  You can also see room temp in atty analyser, this is normally a bit high unless the devices has been sitting for a while.

[jesseseetai]

something is wrong with the mod/chip. i've now tested it with different attys and it's consistently reading the ohms at least .02 low (the one time it read the ohms as higher seemed to be a fluke). once i go into escribe and adjust to make the resistance .02 ohms higher then everything works much better.

i took apart the mod to look at the connections. let me know what you guys think. it's kind hard to see the 510 connection cause of the tape. 

 

 

[VapingBad]

Have you subtracted the test lead res of the multimeter & what is the mod resistance set to?  0.02 should not be much of a problem unless you are sub 0.1 ohm, that only when using NiFe30 and Ni200 for me.

[jesseseetai]

i have the mod resistance set to 0.008. and i agree, you wouldn't think 0.02 would make that much of a difference but it's making a huge difference

[VapingBad]

0.008 mod resistance seems high to me, I have both my 75s at 0.000 as testing they were both below 0.002, both have an Evolv 510.  I would try zeroing it IIWU.

[jesseseetai]

yeah i'll set it back to zero, but the problem was occurring before i changed it from 0. 

[jesseseetai]

so i reset the mod back to factory defaults and i'm still having the same issue. i have a resistance reading of .56 and its hitting temp protect immediately and a cold vape at 23 watts. if i override ohms to .58 then it vapes way better and isn't aggressively hitting temp protect. could this be a bad 510 connection?

[Spector NS5 RD]

could be a dirty 510. try cleaning her out with some iso alc. however, usually when a 510 is making a poor/weak connection to your atty the ohms will be higher, not lower. maybe there is a tiny piece of something metallic inside of the 510 slightly shorting it. you also have to make sure you're using the correct csv material curve/TCR for the wire you're using. keep in mind not all wire is created equal. there are varying grades of all TC wires. make sure you know what you have. i find i have to tweak the SS 316L  TCR of .00092 to .00096-.00098 to get the vape i like. using .00092 at 600°F doesn't quite do it for me so i bump the TCR up a smidge.